French University - VAE Awards

[gatsby]

Can anyone provide me with suggestions and / or links to French Government recognized Universities where non French resident English speaking students can apply for VAE based awards ? Has anyone had experience with this process ?

Thanks

[DRJ]

Can anyone provide me with suggestions and / or links to French Government recognized Universities where non French resident English speaking students can apply for VAE based awards ? Has anyone had experience with this process ?

Thanks

Johann provide a comprehensive comment on the VAE. I suspect you will find that the legitimate VAE universities do not advertise this possibility ( I will accept correction on this assumption but am pretty confident) since it is, like getting a PhD by publication, a method of honouring significant contributions to the a field of endeavour.

Pehaps you can drop a note to the French Embassy to get the information you need.

[blaster]

I will try your suggestion & let you know the outcome.

[johann]

Hi -

One thing for sure - Legit VAE is only done IN FRANCE. You kinda have to BE at the French institution to be examined, present your work, etc.

I'm told it requires at the VERY least a TRIP to France. You can't "phone it in," or teleconference, as far as I know!

You mention you want an English-speaking school. I imagine not speaking French could limit your choices at most French Universities - unless of course it was your intention to qualify for a degree in English Literature....

Of course, if you want bogus VAE you can always apply to Universite Robert de Sorbon. They do it all the time. No, I won't provide a website for this um..."school!" If you want that one, you can look it up on the Oregon list at

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

Johann

[blaster]

Thanks for the info Johnn.

I understand & appreciate that a legit VAE requires attendance for an interview in France. I am happy & prepared to do this. I also understand that an initial application & information can be supplied remotely but will not be confirmed before the interview.

I also understand that Robert de Sorbon (RdS) appears to be a Mill using a different pathway (VAE) to appear to legitimise its awards (although not withstanding Oregon judgement there appears to be others who argue that their 'system' provides legality to this). I am therefore more than wary of RdS (although MAY have to consider as a last resort).

My request still remains about anyone who knows of a legit French University (where interview attendance is required) that do/have/will accept international applications - I have searched but have not been able to find which would be best to approach (although I have commenced doing so on a random basis).

Many Thanks Again To All Contributors To Date

[DRJ]

Thanks for the info Johnn.

I understand & appreciate that a legit VAE requires attendance for an interview in France. I am happy & prepared to do this. I also understand that an initial application & information can be supplied remotely but will not be confirmed before the interview.

I also understand that Robert de Sorbon (RdS) appears to be a Mill using a different pathway (VAE) to appear to legitimise its awards (although not withstanding Oregon judgement there appears to be others who argue that their 'system' provides legality to this). I am therefore more than wary of RdS (although MAY have to consider as a last resort).

My request still remains about anyone who knows of a legit French University (where interview attendance is required) that do/have/will accept international applications - I have searched but have not been able to find which would be best to approach (although I have commenced doing so on a random basis).

Many Thanks Again To All Contributors To Date


http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid1015/service-des-relations-internationales-des-universites.html

I poached this from another board. It is a French Government site that lists the legitimate schools.

[johann]

Hi -

Here's a link to a thread in another forum with a list of PROPER French Universities that do legit VAE in English.

See John Dovelos' list and also his explanation of how the VAE-sold-overseas phenomenon happened, by ingenious exploitation of loopholes.

By the way, one of the links given in the article does not work properly unless you replace "crermont ferrand" with "clermont" ferrand in the Universite Blaise Pascal URL - then it's 100% OK. I just happened to remember it because my first French text in high school 50 years ago was published there! :-)

http://forums.degreeboard.com/showthread.php?t=13421

Johann

[DRJ]

Hi -

Here's a link to a thread in another forum with a list of PROPER French Universities that do legit VAE in English.

See John Dovelos' list and also his explanation of how the VAE-sold-overseas phenomenon happened, by ingenious exploitation of loopholes.

By the way, one of the links given in the article does not work properly unless you replace "crermont ferrand" with "clermont" ferrand in the Universite Blaise Pascal URL - then it's 100% OK. I just happened to remember it because my first French text in high school 50 years ago was published there! :-)

http://forums.degreeboard.com/showthread.php?t=13421

Johann


This is a really great source of information about the VAE issue. Thanks for the post.

[DLG]

I apologize if it is considered improper to revive an old discussion but I think this is the proper place for this.

Having come across several American degree mills offering VAE degrees I decided to find out if the VAE system itself was legitimate. I discovered that VAE credit is offered by virtually all the universities of France. It leads to completely legitimate French degrees – or diplomas as the French prefer to call them. The system is used for both certificate and degree programs. According to one source that I found (http://www.aic.lv/ace/ace_disk/2005_07/sem05_07/se_riga/presentations/m_fEUTRIE_Pres-Riga2.pdf) , in 2005 42,892 VAE applications reached the stage of presentation to a jury in a public institution. Of these 22,257 were granted full qualifications.

This is a sample of what I have gleaned from several hours of research:

A few facts about legit VAE programs

While it is possible to earn a complete degree through VAE, it is common for the jury to recognize credit toward a degree and to lay down requirements for completing the degree.
“Real” universities offer traditional and DL learning as their primary line of business. Their prestige backs any degree that they grant. VAE degrees are backed by the institution as being equivalent to other degrees they grant.
The process is more than just an application. The preparation of the portfolio is a serious undertaking unto itself, usually requiring a personal appearance to defend the submission.


Why a VAE degree?
VAE is offered in the public universities of France. This means that VAE is available in some of the best universities in Europe including the “real Sorbonne”. The VAE-based degrees carry the name of these institutions. French public universities offer what may be the lowest tuition rates in the western world for non-EU citizens. Some of these schools offer DL opportunities. The equation is simple: VAE + DL + transfer credit = a low cost minimum residency degree solution.

Drawbacks
Although many French public universities offer English language studies, I have yet to find one that offers VAE in English. The portfolio must be prepared and defended in French. Of course if you can speak and write in French this may well be what you are looking for.

A Ray of Hope – Private French Business Schools
A wide range of high-ranked (and certainly not low-priced) private business schools operate in France. Many offer a full range of business degrees in English as well as French. Their bread and butter is a selection of American-style MBA programs. Some have DL programs. Like the universities, many, if not all, offer VAE. I have sent out several queries to find out if it is possible to complete the VAE process in English. I’m still waiting …

Acceptance of the VAE degrees
The degrees are certainly legal and accredited as French degrees. Indeed, they are mandated by French law. Are they less prestigious than a traditional degree? Certainly - in the same way that an NA degree is less prestigious than an RA degree. And remember, many still think of DL as being less than bricks and mortar education. The concept is still new and the trend will become more apparent in the next few years. If you are looking for a legal qualification for a professional CV, this is probably good for you. My understanding is that Oregon has rejected specific institutions claiming to implement VAE. I haven’t seen a blanket rejection of VAE. Some universities may balk at it as fulfilling a requirement for admission to study for a higher degree.

Conclusion

VAE is an attractive solution for French speakers with a combination of experience, transfer credit and other non-academic training.
Their may be no option for an English language VAE but the search is certainly worth some effort.
If the VAE programs continue to gather momentum in France, it’s probably only a matter of time before they become available in other languages. This means that we should look into this again once in while.
Anyone who can find a viable VAE option in English would be doing the DL community a big service.

[johann]

Thanks -

That's by far the most informative piece on VAE I've ever read. Great research! :-)

Johann

[zboubi]

I think it is a fair examination of the VAE process.

However he seems to blank the fact that the French VAE may grant full degrees (not credits) . He still see the VAE the PLA - American way, as an auxiliary to traditional university curriculum. It is not!

In 2005 close to 15,000 full university degrees were awarded through the VAE.

Recently the public university of Strasbourg I Louis Pasteur awarded a full Ph.D. degree through the VAE and advertised (http://www-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/actualites/index.php/2008/09/19/1411-premier-diplome-doctorat-delivre-par-vae-universite-louis-pasteur) it.

[ham]

However he seems to blank the fact that the French VAE may grant full degrees (not credits) . He still see the VAE the PLA - American way, as an auxiliary to traditional university curriculum. It is not!

Yes, it MIGHT grant full or partial degrees, when done at an approved university (= traditional B&M universities)...if you convince the jury (in France, in French) how it is in THEIR best interest to grant you a full degree and not just partial credit.
See
http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-vae-french-term-for-priorexperience-learning-2587.html

[zboubi]

Yes, it MIGHT grant full or partial degrees, when done at an approved university (= traditional B&M universities)...if you convince the jury (in France, in French) how it is in THEIR best interest to grant you a full degree and not just partial credit.
See
http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-vae-french-term-for-priorexperience-learning-2587.html

I agree totally on the term might but we must noticed that in France the trend is to grant more and more full degrees through the VAE (see the doctorate from Strasbourg III and the numbers). Its why I thought that the member was still believing that the VAE was just there to give partial credits before university courses.

However, I do not think that t Juries from Private and Public universities grant degrees in "their Interest". They consider that the knowledge accumulated through work experience is equivalent to the one learned in university courses.

I disagree with the term "approved university" i.e. B&M ( I think it means Brick and Mortar ) VAE can be done by any private university that satisfies the numerous requirements of the law. Also the discrimination against "on line" universities is not correct as one of the oldest one is the CNED (something like the British open university).

If you follow this reasoning does it means that all : DETC accredited universities like Phoenix are not allowed to grant degrees in the United States?

[ham]

If you follow this reasoning does it means that all : DETC accredited universities like Phoenix are not allowed to grant degrees in the United States?

You are mixing apples with flat tires here, I'm afraid.
You are confusing the issue of prestige with that of accreditation.
First, confusion and nonsense relating to the DETC/Regional accreditation concerns only the USA; other countries follow the State-approved model that dictates to a large extent the content and pace of curricula; this unfolds both at a central level (France, Italy etc ) or at the regional level (Canada, Germany etc ) where regions (provinces, whatever ) exert individual powers.
A typical complaint from people trying to band private schools in Québec (but the same might be said for Italy or France etc ) is that the State doesn't leave enough freedom to shape curricula.
In a world such as the above, claiming that any outfit sprung out of the blue can deliver proper degrees based on personal interpretations of mysterious procedures is nonsense.
Then most people think that State universities are less prestigious, less performing, less bankable than private universities, or universities that rank high on certain lists or tables; that has nothing to do with accreditation.
You cannot say that ECOLE SUPERIEURE ROBERT DE SORBON is accredited to bestow university degrees equivalent to those of conventional French universities...by whom? To do what, according to which procedure?
You can only say it is legal.
In Italy there were scandals involving LEGAL schools that were not ACCREDITED by the ministry and granted degrees through LEGITIMATE foreign schools: such degrees were not recognized and furthermore legal "student status" was denied: legal/accredited.

However, I do not think that t Juries from Private and Public universities grant degrees in "their Interest". They consider that the knowledge accumulated through work experience is equivalent to the one learned in university courses.

You missed this point:

They emphasize your experience must be as close as possible to the degree you opt for, which doesn't simply amount to saying that if you've worked as an accountant you should opt for an accounting (not biology ) degree...it means close to the credit ratio...in other words it might -just might- happen that you've worked 10 years as an accountant but lack the equivalent of history credits or whichever such oddity.
That is why they suggest to choose the 'right' university.


http://online.degree.net/showpost.php?p=9208&postcount=12