St. James College Online

[JWeaver]

Has anyone had experience with this online college? They seem to be accredited by Our Daily Bread as a good learning center and will help you aquire a degree.

I thank you for the replys. Your St. James and the one I inquired about seem to be different.
The Saint James College I was refering to was located in okeechobee Florida. I now hear they moved to northern Lousiana.
They are on the internet as SaintJamescollege.org

[Ahmed]

Hi here is their website: http://www.sjbc.org.uk/home.htm

I dont know much on the accreditation process in the the UK, hope someone in this forum will know. But to me it seems good, and not a mill

[johann]

Hi

I checked www.dfes.gov.uk thoroughly and St. James does not appear among those institutions authorized to confer degrees in UK. I e-mailed them asking by what authority they did so but the e-mail was returned. Apparently the school's admin. mailbox had been taken out of service - not too promising.

The US website is not yet operational, but I did find them as a member of USDLA (US Distance Learning Association) which is NOT an accrediting organization and plainly states this. On USDLA site (www.usdla.org) I found St. James listed in the "Unaccredited" section. Other schools in the section included Almeda (!) and Barrington.

On the British site, I noted the President's name is Ken Mehlman - not too common a name, IMO. Anybody know if this is the SAME Ken Mehlman who was Chairman of the Republican National Committee 2005-2006? St. James' US location is in Washington DC and I believe Mr. Mehlman, former RNC chairman has lived in the Washington DC area most of his life....

Anyway, if indeed this school is unaccredited on two continents, as it appears, what makes a St. James degree worth anywhere near $8-9,000 US? Just asking!


Johann :-)

"Hater of Unaccredited Degrees" - per Brian

[Brian]

Hi

I checked www.dfes.gov.uk (http://www.dfes.gov.uk) thoroughly and St. James does not appear among those institutions authorized to confer degrees in UK. I e-mailed them asking by what authority they did so but the e-mail was returned. Apparently the school's admin. mailbox had been taken out of service - not too promising.

The US website is not yet operational, but I did find them as a member of USDLA (US Distance Learning Association) which is NOT an accrediting organization and plainly states this. On USDLA site (www.usdla.org (http://www.usdla.org)) I found St. James listed in the "Unaccredited" section. Other schools in the section included Almeda (!) and Barrington.

On the British site, I noted the President's name is Ken Mehlman - not too common a name, IMO. Anybody know if this is the SAME Ken Mehlman who was Chairman of the Republican National Committee 2005-2006? St. James' US location is in Washington DC and I believe Mr. Mehlman, former RNC chairman has lived in the Washington DC area most of his life....

Anyway, if indeed this school is unaccredited on two continents, as it appears, what makes a St. James degree worth anywhere near $8-9,000 US? Just asking!


Johann :-)

"Hater of Unaccredited Degrees" - per Brian

Hi Johann,

I am honored that you include my quote in your thread. Am I considered a philosopher now?:cool:

[Ahmed]

St. James is fake, period

[DRJ]

Hi Johann,

I am honored that you include my quote in your thread. Am I considered a philosopher now?:cool:

You may well be one. A philospher does not have to be an advocate of a popular opinon but just one who can make a reasoned argument that supports that idea or opinion. Observation of life, observations of the absurdity of rules, all backed up by some documented facts or reasoned argument have long been the domain of philosophy.

Your reasoned responses show an ability to see the nuances of a position. It is only when you drop back to dogma that your argument is lost.

[johann]

Hi Brian -

Sure - no doubt about it. I'll consider you a philosopher, no problem. AS DRJ has written, you often exhibit qualities desirable in a philosopher. So WHAT if once in a long while you may --uh -- forget momentarily to exhibit those qualities?

None of us are perfect (and all generalities are false, including this one).

Seriously, as you are a philosopher, I'll agree AND disagree with you, as I do once in a while with Thales of Miletus, Kierkegaard, Derrida, et al. Only you have an advantage - you can still reply in this forum and I'd be very surprised if any of THEM did!

And no - you need no piece of paper, accredited or otherwise, to be a philosopher.

By the way, I don't HATE unaccredited schools. I'll admit I don't LIKE most of 'em that much and I wouldn't personally want to enrol at 99% of them. This is a value judgment on my part. You can be paying a lot for a degree that I believe has limited utility - often in the employment market, which is the main reason many people seek a degree in the first place.

What I HATE are BAD and SUBSTANDARD schools, regardless of accreditation - real, bogus or none. It just seems to me that most of the worst also have defective or no accreditation.

If a bad or substandard (imo) school has bogus or nonexistent accreditation, then that's one more bullet in my argument. If they are granting degrees ILLEGALLY (e.g. in countries where they do not have proper permission) then that's TWO bullets, at least!

One unaccredited school I really LIKE is Nations University. Another State-approved one I like is Lion Academy of Investigation. They're a DETC applicant and given time, I expect they may very well make it. I like 'em regardless! Folks smarter than me say they do a heck of a job!

Cheers :-)

Johann

[Brian]

Hi Brian -

Sure - no doubt about it. I'll consider you a philosopher, no problem. AS DRJ has written, you often exhibit qualities desirable in a philosopher. So WHAT if once in a long while you may --uh -- forget momentarily to exhibit those qualities?

None of us are perfect (and all generalities are false, including this one).

Seriously, as you are a philosopher, I'll agree AND disagree with you, as I do once in a while with Thales of Miletus, Kierkegaard, Derrida, et al. Only you have an advantage - you can still reply in this forum and I'd be very surprised if any of THEM did!

And no - you need no piece of paper, accredited or otherwise, to be a philosopher.

By the way, I don't HATE unaccredited schools. I'll admit I don't LIKE most of 'em that much and I wouldn't personally want to enrol at 99% of them. This is a value judgment on my part. You can be paying a lot for a degree that I believe has limited utility - often in the employment market, which is the main reason many people seek a degree in the first place.

What I HATE are BAD and SUBSTANDARD schools, regardless of accreditation - real, bogus or none. It just seems to me that most of the worst also have defective or no accreditation.

If a bad or substandard (imo) school has bogus or nonexistent accreditation, then that's one more bullet in my argument. If they are granting degrees ILLEGALLY (e.g. in countries where they do not have proper permission) then that's TWO bullets, at least!

One unaccredited school I really LIKE is Nations University. Another State-approved one I like is Lion Academy of Investigation. They're a DETC applicant and given time, I expect they may very well make it. I like 'em regardless! Folks smarter than me say they do a heck of a job!

Cheers :-)

Johann

Good to see you back contributing.:)

[JWeaver]

I guess no one knows this college. Here is a were they are,(saintjamescollege.org). They are accreditated by the association of accredited bible schools. Their price is right and they offer a lot. I was thinking about enrolling.
JWeaver

[Ahmed]

There courses are not RA accredited, and I guess most people would call this school a mill.
The choice is yours and what you looking for in a school

[johann]

Hi JWeaver

Sorry - I guess we were after the wrong St. James earlier - but we didn't have a web url to go on.

The only real consideration is - will a degree from this school MEET YOUR NEEDS?

That said, The St. James College you referred to is not accredited by a CHEA-recognized accreditor --and is honest enough to state that. (I believe it has to.) The disclaimer is kinda strangely worded, but that doesn't bother me. Most of 'em are a whole lot stranger than the one on St. James' site.

A degree from St. James would have VERY limited utility in the job market. Any place that will give you credit for a challenge exam that (they say) might be a 200-word essay OR a few multiple-choice questions ---well, let's just say it's a bit too easy for a "regular" school. I think in this case a degree from a school with an unrecognized accreditor has about the same value in the employment marketplace as one with no accreditation.

Another thing - St. James has a very generous transfer-IN policy. Credits from just about any school are good with them. You should NOT expect credits you earn there to transfer OUT well - to a school with recognized accreditation. If you earn a Bachelor's at St. James, you should NOT expect that it will get you into a Master's program at an RA or NA school. I think that's in the fine print somewhere, but I'm re-iterating it just in case.

You have to make up your own mind - if you don't need recognized accreditation for employment or other purposes, then this MIGHT be the school for you. Seeing as it is spiritually-oriented, or at least professes to be, why not ask around your church and denomination - do they accept degrees from St. James?

The school also cautions that all degrees must carry a religious connotation - you can earn a business degree but the full title would be (for example) a B.A. in Business Management of Religious Organizations - or similar. This is likely because the unrecognized accreditor will only accredit religious-oriented degrees. And again, that's OK with me if it's OK with you.

Does this school MEET YOUR NEEDS? You have to answer that question to your OWN satisfaction. What I think does not matter. Whatever you decide, I wish you every success. :-)

Johann

[DRJ]

I guess no one knows this college. Here is a were they are,(saintjamescollege.org). They are accreditated by the association of accredited bible schools. Their price is right and they offer a lot. I was thinking about enrolling.
JWeaver

The web site you offered does not connect. Please find the correct one and post it. Many Colleges. believing that the state should not interfere with religion, do not seek accreditation from USDoE. One of the accreditors that does attempt to look into these types of schools is found at http://www.tracs.org/

I also ran across a guide that may be helpful to you. I know nothing of this type of education but my reading of other forums suggests there is some merit to this location.
http://www.bakersguide.com/

Good luck

[Brian]

Hi JWeaver

Sorry - I guess we were after the wrong St. James earlier - but we didn't have a web url to go on.

The only real consideration is - will a degree from this school MEET YOUR NEEDS?

That said, The St. James College you referred to is not accredited by a CHEA-recognized accreditor --and is honest enough to state that. (I believe it has to.) The disclaimer is kinda strangely worded, but that doesn't bother me. Most of 'em are a whole lot stranger than the one on St. James' site.

A degree from St. James would have VERY limited utility in the job market. Any place that will give you credit for a challenge exam that (they say) might be a 200-word essay OR a few multiple-choice questions ---well, let's just say it's a bit too easy for a "regular" school. I think in this case a degree from a school with an unrecognized accreditor has about the same value in the employment marketplace as one with no accreditation.

Another thing - St. James has a very generous transfer-IN policy. Credits from just about any school are good with them. You should NOT expect credits you earn there to transfer OUT well - to a school with recognized accreditation. If you earn a Bachelor's at St. James, you should NOT expect that it will get you into a Master's program at an RA or NA school. I think that's in the fine print somewhere, but I'm re-iterating it just in case.

You have to make up your own mind - if you don't need recognized accreditation for employment or other purposes, then this MIGHT be the school for you. Seeing as it is spiritually-oriented, or at least professes to be, why not ask around your church and denomination - do they accept degrees from St. James?

The school also cautions that all degrees must carry a religious connotation - you can earn a business degree but the full title would be (for example) a B.A. in Business Management of Religious Organizations - or similar. This is likely because the unrecognized accreditor will only accredit religious-oriented degrees. And again, that's OK with me if it's OK with you.

Does this school MEET YOUR NEEDS? You have to answer that question to your OWN satisfaction. What I think does not matter. Whatever you decide, I wish you every success. :-)

Johann

Hi johann,

I am glad to see that you are really helping people on this site regardless of whether or not they are attending an unrecognized accredited or unaccredited school.

You have gotten back to giving great advice and doing so on an individual needs basis and not on a personal agenda.

This kind of advise is educational. You are informing them of the possible unacceptance of the degree but encouraging a freedom of choice based on their particular needs.

Almost everyone that posts on these sites are aware that a RA or NA school is a better choice but sometimes they are looking for the next best thing.

Keep it up! Now you sound like the Guru that we all can seek advise from.:D

[Ahmed]

Hi All

It is good to see that Johann is keeping an open mind on the different schools, and there is a change in attitude on accreditation.

I think that we now seem to agree on the accredditation issue, is that what a person is looking for in a school and if it meets their needs that its good for them.

And, that 5 page thesis and a CV, that earns you a doctrate is a Mill.

Good luck

[DRJ]

Hi All

It is good to see that Johann is keeping an open mind on the different schools, and there is a change in attitude on accreditation.

I think that we now seem to agree on the accredditation issue, is that what a person is looking for in a school and if it meets their needs that its good for them.

And, that 5 page thesis and a CV, that earns you a doctrate is a Mill.

Good luck


Unfortunately we do not all agree on the mill issue. One of us keeps telling people that a life degree from a mill is OK. That is just wrong.

[Brian]

Unfortunately we do not all agree on the mill issue. One of us keeps telling people that a life degree from a mill is OK. That is just wrong.
Hi DRJ,

Would I be that one?

I am afraid that I do not condone getting a life degree from a mill. What I say is that if you are very experienced and I mean very experienced at a particular line of work and you can not get interviews simply because of a screening requirement, then you can use it to get to the interview. When at the interview be honest in how it was obtained and let the hiring person decide whether or not to offer the job to you.

They will know that the degree itself is worthless but if they like you and your skills then it could turn into a opportunity to present what you can offer their company.There is no ill feeling toward you because you are being honest in how it was obtained and that takes more character and is much harder to do than being dishonest about it.

Besides, is that not the only person that matters? Myself, DRJ, or Johann is not the one you must sit in front of and explain to how it was obtained.

The misleading part comes in when you begin to tell them that you attended classes and took exams and such. If you do that, I certainly do not condone this in any way. That would be misrpresentation.

Getting a life degree is not illegal or unethical but misrepresenting it could be perceved as unethical and in a handful of states illegal. These are true facts and no one on this board can argued that, whether they agree with it or not. ;)

[Brian]

Hi All

It is good to see that Johann is keeping an open mind on the different schools, and there is a change in attitude on accreditation.

I think that we now seem to agree on the accredditation issue, is that what a person is looking for in a school and if it meets their needs that its good for them.

And, that 5 page thesis and a CV, that earns you a doctrate is a Mill.

Good luck
I agree completely Ahmed!

[Ahmed]

Hi All

Atleast we agree on somethings

At most instances, obtaining a degree means equipping oneself theoretical, by understanding concepts and how to do things correctly.

A life degree is exactly what it means, no theory involved. One could be doing things wrong in the workplace, with no theory to know how to do things correctly, and a place like Almeda will give you a degree for that. That =
Mill. period.

[DRJ]

Hi DRJ,

Would I be that one?

I am afraid that I do not condone getting a life degree from a mill. What I say is that if you are very experienced and I mean very experienced at a particular line of work and you can not get interviews simply because of a screening requirement, then you can use it to get to the interview. When at the interview be honest in how it was obtained and let the hiring person decide whether or not to offer the job to you.

They will know that the degree itself is worthless but if they like you and your skills then it could turn into a opportunity to present what you can offer their company.There is no ill feeling toward you because you are being honest in how it was obtained and that takes more character and is much harder to do than being dishonest about it.

Besides, is that not the only person that matters? Myself, DRJ, or Johann is not the one you must sit in front of and explain to how it was obtained.

The misleading part comes in when you begin to tell them that you attended classes and took exams and such. If you do that, I certainly do not condone this in any way. That would be misrpresentation.

Getting a life degree is not illegal or unethical but misrepresenting it could be perceved as unethical and in a handful of states illegal. These are true facts and no one on this board can argued that, whether they agree with it or not. ;)

A well constructed argument. The last paragraph is true. "Getting a life degree is not illegal or unethical but misrepresenting it could be perceved as unethical and in a handful of states illegal. These are true facts and no one on this board can argued that, whether they agree with it or not."

The problem is that the person you are counselling is committing fraud by using this degree on his application for employment. This is unethical period. I do not care if the company is using this as a screening device and being unethical or unlawful. The old saying that two wrongs do make a right holds. Quite frankly if I was breaking the law by asking for a degree when that is not one of the bone fides of the job then I surely would not hire a person who presents with a bogus degree.

I suspect this will be my last post.

[Brian]

A well constructed argument. The last paragraph is true. "Getting a life degree is not illegal or unethical but misrepresenting it could be perceved as unethical and in a handful of states illegal. These are true facts and no one on this board can argued that, whether they agree with it or not."

The problem is that the person you are counselling is committing fraud by using this degree on his application for employment. This is unethical period. I do not care if the company is using this as a screening device and being unethical or unlawful. The old saying that two wrongs do make a right holds. Quite frankly if I was breaking the law by asking for a degree when that is not one of the bone fides of the job then I surely would not hire a person who presents with a bogus degree.

I suspect this will be my last post.
Hi Drj,

I understand your viewpoint but I simply have a different viewpoint. It is not fraud to put on your resume that you have a degree if it was obtained by a mill. It is in fact a degree, legally. It may not be of your standards or the potential employers standards, however it is in fact a legal degree. So that info you gave about being fraud is false.

Now to your personal higher moral standards it is unethical or in your viewpoint considered fraud. Again this is a personal viewpoint and not fact. Again this is not condoning mills! This is stating a fact that needs to be said.

I respect you for your higher standards and compliment you for that. More people should be like you on that, however I am not here posting on this board to give moral advise but simply advise about what people want to know about the degree questions that they have.

My personal moral or ethical standards are not for this board. At least not for pushing my moral standards on anyone else. I let them decide. We can save the moral discussions for the religious boards were they should be and keep to the subject at hand for this board. :-P

[johann]

Hi DRJ -

The link DOES work - www.saintjamescollege.org - but I'll confess I had to catch myself - I entered www.stjamescollege.org by mistake the first time and got a 404. You have to spell it out in full.

The suggestion re: TRACS was a good one for people who want to find a religious-oriented school with CHEA-recognized accreditation. However, I've been through the TRACS listings completely and I found that there seems to be very, very little distance learning offered from TRACS schools. I'd say 90% or more appeared to teach exclusively on-campus. :-)

Johann

[peterhc]

Not be be confused with St. James, AU., Saint James is connected with the
Love Church, a New Thought Christian denomination. They are a fully charted school in Florida offering various types of degress and certifications. It is possible to transfer credits, including life experience towards a degree, including the doctorate. They do not issues degrees without doing the work.
Just how much work is required, I can't say. Their doctotoral programs are a good example of real "alternative" education. You can do the traditional dissertation, or a major project which is in line with what Professional doctorates are supposed to be.

I can't quite figure out the degree being offered in priviate investigation? But maybe it has a spiritual twist to it.

If I was looking for a theological school that did not have a conservative/fundamenal/evangelical doctrinal bias and was not a degree mill, this school may be for you. The degree is legal and I think the people running the school have some integrity from what I have gathered.
You will get what you put into it, which is true of any program, accredited or not.

Peter H. Coster
BGS, Ohio University
MDiv, Pacific School of Religion
MA, Pacific School of Religion
Post-MA, John F. Kennedy U.
PhD, (cand) U. of the Free State