The International University

[Brian]

The International University http://www.internationaluniversity.edu is a UK university that operates in Missouri. Does anyone know if this is a legit. university? They have a .edu.

I am interested in the masters program. They seem to have been in operation since 1973. As much info as possible would be great.

[ShotoJuku]

Sorry, I could find them listed anywhere.....???

[DRJ]

The International University http://www.internationaluniversity.edu is a UK university that operates in Missouri. Does anyone know if this is a legit. university? They have a .edu.

I am interested in the masters program. They seem to have been in operation since 1973. As much info as possible would be great.

Here is a very simple test of a school. If they say in their promotional literature that accreditation in the US is flawed so they do not choose to become accredited they need to be checked out very carefully.

If you want an MBA try some of these
http://www.geteducated.com/rankings/best_mbareg.asp

Your posts seem to be all over the map which makes it difficult to try and provide you with reliable and useful information. For instance I think I just responded to something from you looking for an undergraduate degree yet in this thread you seem to be asking about an MBA. If you are more specific the board members can be helpful.

[johann]

I thought we'd discussed this place before! Or maybe I did so on another forum.

First - they only have a .edu because of a loophole that says if they had one prior to some date in 2001 they get to keep it! No way they should get one now!

They say they belong to the USDLA (Distance Learning Association). This is an UNRECOGNIZED accreditor and any other USDLA adherent I've seen qualifies as a MILL. "The International University etc. etc" seems to part of Grandview International University which is on the Oregon -and I believe other states' unaccredited lists.

I think their Russian affiliation is the same one that grants "Grand Ph.D's" which are bogus inventions in any language. Their British "qualifications" are suspect, imo. It does not look to me like they have what they need to offer properly UK-recognized degrees. The accreditor seems to be a private firm - website not up - and the literature has overtones of a "quality checkmark" process that may be more focused on customer-service. I don't think the U.K. Government would view these degrees in the same light as those from properly-chartered universities. Kinda reminds me of a mill that said all their degrees met ISO9000 standards! The gurus at www.degreeinfo.com had a REAL good laugh over that one! I've also seen their Belgian-originated WIDU logo ONLY on other Euro-mills. Maybe it fools some people. Doesn't fool me. Wouldn't fool a U.S. employer, either.


Further suspect signs: have a look at Grandview International's site - obvious clones, plus some MORE fishiness in the UK accreditation. The Commission for Continuous Learning's Website is no more - and the letter shown on Grandview is mysteriously headed "Christhomas Consortium London", not Commission for Continuous Learning." Wha?? You can see the Grandview clone at www.tiu.org or a plainer version without Flash at www.tiu.org/main1.html

Awww--crap! I just figured it out! The Christhomas Consortium is THE SAME BOGUS ACCREDITOR that accredited the "Irish International University" a known purveyor of fraudulent degrees, last known to be recruiting students in Cambodia. And yes, CCL's website IS down. For more about them, see this link, halfway down the page.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=32

Brian - if we know of a legitimate oportunity for you to earn a recognizable degree as cheaply and quickly as possible - we've already mentioned it.

RUN from this one and sign up with Ashworth, Penn Foster, Clovis Community College or one of the other recommendations. If it looks too good to be true -IT IS! I hope we don't have any more of these coming at us! We like to discuss GOOD schools here, as I've said many times before.

In fact, I'm TIRED OF HOLDING YOUR HAND. I'm NOT DOING any more mill-sleuthing for you. I'm sick of bad er..."schools!" I'm turning in my badge, 9mm and bifocals... I have to retire from the degree-mill police before I "eat" my gun! Do your own detective work - or maybe Ahmed can take over!

Consider this the FIRST RESEARCH PROJECT of your academic career - finding the right school. If you can't properly handle this one with what we've already done for you, there's NO WAY you deserve a legit degree of any kind. If you flunk out of this project, you'd surely be unable to handle the required research in ANY program that counts!


Johann

[Brian]

Here is a very simple test of a school. If they say in their promotional literature that accreditation in the US is flawed so they do not choose to become accredited they need to be checked out very carefully.

If you want an MBA try some of these
http://www.geteducated.com/rankings/best_mbareg.asp

Your posts seem to be all over the map which makes it difficult to try and provide you with reliable and useful information. For instance I think I just responded to something from you looking for an undergraduate degree yet in this thread you seem to be asking about an MBA. If you are more specific the board members can be helpful.

Thanks for your input. I guess it does seem a little crazy but I am planning my complete educational route before I start the process. What I am looking for is the most efficient and economical way to obtain my final goal. This school has schools in Russia,Uk and some others. I understand that they are in good standing with the ministry in Russia, which means that the WEC recognizes this institution in Russia and the school has the ability to transfer credits to schools recognized in the U.S.

[Brian]

I thought we'd discussed this place before! Or maybe I did so on another forum.

First - they only have a .edu because of a loophole that says if they had one prior to some date in 2001 they get to keep it! No way they should get one now!

They say they belong to the USDLA (Distance Learning Association). This is an UNRECOGNIZED accreditor and any other USDLA adherent I've seen qualifies as a MILL. "The International University etc. etc" seems to part of Grandview International University which is on the Oregon -and I believe other states' unaccredited lists.

I think their Russian affiliation is the same one that grants "Grand Ph.D's" which are bogus inventions in any language. Their British "qualifications" are suspect, imo. It does not look to me like they have what they need to offer properly UK-recognized degrees. The accreditor seems to be a private firm - website not up - and the literature has overtones of a "quality checkmark" process that may be more focused on customer-service. I don't think the U.K. Government would view these degrees in the same light as those from properly-chartered universities. Kinda reminds me of a mill that said all their degrees met ISO9000 standards! The gurus at www.degreeinfo.com had a REAL good laugh over that one! I've also seen their Belgian-originated WIDU logo ONLY on other Euro-mills. Maybe it fools some people. Doesn't fool me. Wouldn't fool a U.S. employer, either.


Further suspect signs: have a look at Grandview International's site - obvious clones, plus some MORE fishiness in the UK accreditation. The Commission for Continuous Learning's Website is no more - and the letter shown on Grandview is mysteriously headed "Christhomas Consortium London", not Commission for Continuous Learning." Wha?? You can see the Grandview clone at www.tiu.org or a plainer version without Flash at www.tiu.org/main1.html

Awww--crap! I just figured it out! The Christhomas Consortium is THE SAME BOGUS ACCREDITOR that accredited the "Irish International University" a known purveyor of fraudulent degrees, last known to be recruiting students in Cambodia. And yes, CCL's website IS down. For more about them, see this link, halfway down the page.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=32

Brian - if we know of a legitimate oportunity for you to earn a recognizable degree as cheaply and quickly as possible - we've already mentioned it.

RUN from this one and sign up with Ashworth, Penn Foster, Clovis Community College or one of the other recommendations. If it looks too good to be true -IT IS! I hope we don't have any more of these coming at us! We like to discuss GOOD schools here, as I've said many times before.

In fact, I'm TIRED OF HOLDING YOUR HAND. I'm NOT DOING any more mill-sleuthing for you. I'm sick of bad er..."schools!" I'm turning in my badge, 9mm and bifocals... I have to retire from the degree-mill police before I "eat" my gun! Do your own detective work - or maybe Ahmed can take over!

Consider this the FIRST RESEARCH PROJECT of your academic career - finding the right school. If you can't properly handle this one with what we've already done for you, there's NO WAY you deserve a legit degree of any kind. If you flunk out of this project, you'd surely be unable to handle the required research in ANY program that counts!


Johann

Hi Johann,

I appreciate the info however I have done some research on this school and there seems to be a unique situation with this school with their Russian education of ministry acceptance.

Sometimes some people are so educated or aggravated that they are not persistant to continue with investigation to get all of the facts. I do heavy research into the schools that I am looking at and this forum is only a small portion of that. I take the bit of info that I get here and include it together with other research to rule out or continue with my investigation of a particular school. This forum is the start of that process, not the end result. It's kind of like, this forum is the pop quiz to prepare for the final exam.

I really appreciate your inputs, however I have found some incorrect info on this website. I just overlook the incomplete and sometimes completely wrong info. I sometimes feel that the strong contributers of this forum have had a couple weeks worth of training in standard and substandard schools from a seminar somewhere but failed to continue forward in their education of these schools and still relate to themselves as experts.

Please continue to do your research and give a school the benefit of the doubt until it has been definetely found to be a degree mill. You could possibly be doing some people injustice by jumping the gun on a school.

[DRJ]

Thanks for your input. I guess it does seem a little crazy but I am planning my complete educational route before I start the process. What I am looking for is the most efficient and economical way to obtain my final goal. This school has schools in Russia,Uk and some others. I understand that they are in good standing with the ministry in Russia, which means that the WEC recognizes this institution in Russia and the school has the ability to transfer credits to schools recognized in the U.S.

It is nice that WEC recognizes them but who recognizes WEC? What is WEC?

There is no easy way for you to get to where you want to go. My educational journey has been one that does not conform to traditional methods or pathways. I have reveiwed hundreds of sites and followed through the investgative process for dozens of the organizations you are now encountering.

I am not sure what you are looking for but the advise you have been given, to the best of this boards knowledge and information, is sound and will lead you towards a valued credential that will help achieve you life goals.

Accept the advise or not but please do not continue to run these bogus schools past us.

[Brian]

The WEC is a U.S. agency that evaluates international schools and recomends transfer credit to schools in the U.S. Colleges such as Grantham University who is DETC accredited and EL Paso Community College among others use their service to evaluate international degrees and courses. The International University in Moscow, Russia is in their database.

I think that there is a quicker and less economical way to obtain a degree and I intend to find it. Taking mathematics and history for a degree in art is not only a rip off but it is stupid. The people that take these classes are not stupid because they must take these classes in order to get that peice of paper on the wall, but the orginazation that allows this practice to continue is stupid. I know what some of you are going to say, "it makes you a more rounded person". I would probably say that too if I had just shelled out thousands of dollars on useless courses.

I have been in engineering in the past, for years, never one time did I need history. I am sure that you could replace history with a modern Six Sigma course since that is what you will be using daily. Universities that must uphold accreditation are required to make you to take useless courses because they need the money to support the expensive cost of accreditation. I am determined not to give my money away for useless courses. Why not have a course in underwater basketweaving, as we used to say in the Navy.

Accreditation agencies are so out of date on their requirements that I can't believe that they are still the standard. I have traveled all over the world and I can say, being world traveled is what makes you a more rounded person and somewhat of a more compassionate, more intellectual person. I understand that there has to be some educational standard, however accreditation is a pile of crap.

[DRJ]

The WEC is a U.S. agency that evaluates international schools and recomends transfer credit to schools in the U.S. Colleges such as Grantham University who is DETC accredited and EL Paso Community College among others use their service to evaluate international degrees and courses. The International University in Moscow, Russia is in their database.

I think that there is a quicker and less economical way to obtain a degree and I intend to find it. Taking mathematics and history for a degree in art is not only a rip off but it is stupid. The people that take these classes are not stupid because they must take these classes in order to get that peice of paper on the wall, but the orginazation that allows this practice to continue is stupid. I know what some of you are going to say, "it makes you a more rounded person". I would probably say that too if I had just shelled out thousands of dollars on useless courses.

I have been in engineering in the past, for years, never one time did I need history. I am sure that you could replace history with a modern Six Sigma course since that is what you will be using daily. Universities that must uphold accreditation are required to make you to take useless courses because they need the money to support the expensive cost of accreditation. I am determined not to give my money away for useless courses. Why not have a course in underwater basketweaving, as we used to say in the Navy.

Accreditation agencies are so out of date on their requirements that I can't believe that they are still the standard. I have traveled all over the world and I can say, being world traveled is what makes you a more rounded person and somewhat of a more compassionate, more intellectual person. I understand that there has to be some educational standard, however accreditation is a pile of crap.

I stand ready to be educated. I have done a google search for WEC and can not find it. Maybe I am missing something. Please point us to a web site so we can learn from your research.

If by chance you mean WES then I understand that many schools both in the US and Canada rely on their service to evaluate credentials from universities form other countries. In fact the College that I work for as the Chair of Business relies on WES evaluations however I do not find a reference to the School you were asking about.


"I have been in engineering in the past, for years, never one time did I need history. I am sure that you could replace history with a modern Six Sigma course since that is what you will be using daily."

This is probably a true statement. You do not need an understanding of history to do the day to day stuff of this discipline but you must certainly understand and know the history of engineering and Six Sigma to be at the peak of the trade just as it helps me to understand the history of post secondary education to understand the current practices.

During your time in the Navy did you not get a thorough grounding in the history of the Navy so that you could better understand the reasons for todays actions?

[DRJ]

There really is only one way to stand tall.


http://www.classesusa.com/rc/featurearticles/walmart_dean.html

[Ahmed]

Hi All

Johann, is very right about International University, this one is definately out, I would agree with the so called "university" that the American Accreditation process is flawed, and it is, so this "university" has taken advantage of that by exploiting gullible people. Johann, myself and other has mentioned it many times before, stay away from these so called schools. Enough said about so called "schools" or "fly by nights"

As far as you resigning from your post and me taking over, I can never replace you, for the following reasons:
You are 21 years my senior
You have quiet a few years experience in accreditation, as compared to myself
You are dedicated to your work.
And you are a good person, with the righjt qualities for the job.

Brian if accreditation is a pile of crap, then you can enroll at any so called "school" because you dont need it an accredited school.

[johann]

Hi Brian -

Not here specifically to burst your bubble -- just to let you know I do my homework. I'm not TOO frustrated - yet - and I don't think I'm overly educated either - nor have I been to any seminars in accreditation - ever.

You don't specify further about the Russian Affiliation -- so I will. AND how about giving us some WEBSITES! I think the one we need here is www.iufs.edu.

I DO realize is that Grandview/International/whatever has ties with IUFS. IUFS is an aggressive marketer of grad. degrees to overseas students at $199 per course. Nothing wrong with that. They have some unique Russian and especially Eastern-Siberian flavoured courses that fascinate me. I'd really like to take some courses from them at some point, but I wouldn't set any store whatsoever on a DEGREE from them.

What I DON'T like about them is:

They seem to have permission to operate legally but that doesn't say anything about the acceptance of their degrees. They don't appear to be chartered in the same way traditional Russian Universities are. It's pretty much impossible to get that done at all these days, so that's not so bad... yes, the Ministry "recognized" them but in what manner? They've already called themselves a "Non-Government" University? What do they mean by "recognition" - that the Ministry acknowledges that they exist?

(Incidentally - their site has changed in appearance. It USED to have that bluish appearance, heavy on crests and seals etc. that marks Grandview's and International University's sites. I think the same person made all 3 of the originals! But that was quite a while ago... I'm not new to this!)

They tell you some of their professors have "Grand Ph D.'s" Now, this degree is a recently-invented phony device used by mills. It has no meaning in academic circles at all. Doesn't lend them ANY credence in my book! I've only seen reference to it on sites of the most blatant Euro-mills (and Asia-mills).

Furthermore, you were originally talking about an "International University"degree aren't you. Isn't that what it's gonna say on it? Not their Russian buddies at IUFS? Either way, its STILL a no-show in the US. You want a degree for employment purposes - this AIN'T IT! And your boss will tell you.

You're convinced there's an easier cheaper route to a degree than we know of. I doubt there is one - to a legit degree. Good luck. I've been at this a while and I just don't think it's out there. I agree accreditation in the US has it flaws - but it's all you guys have GOT to control fraudsters and it's what employers go by. Thank God we don't have the same litany of accreditation-related problems here in Canada or where Ahmed lives in South Africa either! U.S. employers DON'T CARE that you think accreditation is a pile of crap. There are plenty of people who would agree with you - some of them International University grads, some Breyer State and some Almeda/LaMerda grads too. Your BOSS will not be one of these who agrees with you!

So -- if you want a degree for FUN - go wherever. IUFS would be really fun (to me, anyway) and no doubt you would learn something. However, if you want one that your BOSS will accept - take our recommendations OR keep searching for that elusive "magic bullet." Whatever.
If you want to know more about earning a non-traditional degree (or a traditional one by non-traditional means) I'd recommend "Bear's Guide to Non-Traditional Degrees." Dr. John Bear (whose own Ph.D. is from a traditional RA school) is the acknowledged expert in this field. Google the book or go to Amazon or something.

Just don't accuse me of not doing my homework. I tend to take that kind of wrong-headed accusation very personally - not that I figure you care!

Johann

[Brian]

I stand ready to be educated. I have done a google search for WEC and can not find it. Maybe I am missing something. Please point us to a web site so we can learn from your research.

If by chance you mean WES then I understand that many schools both in the US and Canada rely on their service to evaluate credentials from universities form other countries. In fact the College that I work for as the Chair of Business relies on WES evaluations however I do not find a reference to the School you were asking about.


"I have been in engineering in the past, for years, never one time did I need history. I am sure that you could replace history with a modern Six Sigma course since that is what you will be using daily."

This is probably a true statement. You do not need an understanding of history to do the day to day stuff of this discipline but you must certainly understand and know the history of engineering and Six Sigma to be at the peak of the trade just as it helps me to understand the history of post secondary education to understand the current practices.

During your time in the Navy did you not get a thorough grounding in the history of the Navy so that you could better understand the reasons for todays actions?

Yes you are right, I did get a formal history lesson about the Navy(specific to the organization) it lasted 2 days. Also you don't need history about engineering because it is a progressive trade and not regressive. You only need the principles of engineering to perform well.

The school is listed if you look on the site and choose Russia and the degree recieved. I did type the name wrong however, it is WES.

[johann]

Brian -

I went to the WES site, Chose Russia - specific types of degrees came up and the Ministry came up - but no list of institutions. The Ministry's address was given 'cause that's who you've got to get the paperwork from.

Think you'd be better off with Ashworth or Clovis Community - both good recommendations (one was mine). Clovis will get you a REAL degree cheaper than a bogus (imo) one from International! Ashworth (also REAL) is a bargain too - about the same price!

I'm gonna be outa here for quite a while. Maybe back to lurk in a a year or two. I think I know how this mess will turn out, so I can skip the finale...Good luck in your research!

Johann

[Brian]

Hi Brian -

Not here specifically to burst your bubble -- just to let you know I do my homework. I'm not TOO frustrated - yet - and I don't think I'm overly educated either - nor have I been to any seminars in accreditation - ever.

You don't specify further about the Russian Affiliation -- so I will. AND how about giving us some WEBSITES! I think the one we need here is www.iufs.edu.

I DO realize is that Grandview/International/whatever has ties with IUFS. IUFS is an aggressive marketer of grad. degrees to overseas students at $199 per course. Nothing wrong with that. They have some unique Russian and especially Eastern-Siberian flavoured courses that fascinate me. I'd really like to take some courses from them at some point, but I wouldn't set any store whatsoever on a DEGREE from them.

What I DON'T like about them is:

They seem to have permission to operate legally but that doesn't say anything about the acceptance of their degrees. They don't appear to be chartered in the same way traditional Russian Universities are. It's pretty much impossible to get that done at all these days, so that's not so bad... yes, the Ministry "recognized" them but in what manner? They've already called themselves a "Non-Government" University? What do they mean by "recognition" - that the Ministry acknowledges that they exist?

(Incidentally - their site has changed in appearance. It USED to have that bluish appearance, heavy on crests and seals etc. that marks Grandview's and International University's sites. I think the same person made all 3 of the originals! But that was quite a while ago... I'm not new to this!)

They tell you some of their professors have "Grand Ph D.'s" Now, this degree is a recently-invented phony device used by mills. It has no meaning in academic circles at all. Doesn't lend them ANY credence in my book! I've only seen reference to it on sites of the most blatant Euro-mills (and Asia-mills).

Furthermore, you were originally talking about an "International University"degree aren't you. Isn't that what it's gonna say on it? Not their Russian buddies at IUFS? Either way, its STILL a no-show in the US. You want a degree for employment purposes - this AIN'T IT! And your boss will tell you.

You're convinced there's an easier cheaper route to a degree than we know of. I doubt there is one - to a legit degree. Good luck. I've been at this a while and I just don't think it's out there. I agree accreditation in the US has it flaws - but it's all you guys have GOT to control fraudsters and it's what employers go by. Thank God we don't have the same litany of accreditation-related problems here in Canada or where Ahmed lives in South Africa either! U.S. employers DON'T CARE that you think accreditation is a pile of crap. There are plenty of people who would agree with you - some of them International University grads, some Breyer State and some Almeda/LaMerda grads too. Your BOSS will not be one of these who agrees with you!

So -- if you want a degree for FUN - go wherever. IUFS would be really fun (to me, anyway) and no doubt you would learn something. However, if you want one that your BOSS will accept - take our recommendations OR keep searching for that elusive "magic bullet." Whatever.
If you want to know more about earning a non-traditional degree (or a traditional one by non-traditional means) I'd recommend "Bear's Guide to Non-Traditional Degrees." Dr. John Bear (whose own Ph.D. is from a traditional RA school) is the acknowledged expert in this field. Google the book or go to Amazon or something.

Just don't accuse me of not doing my homework. I tend to take that kind of wrong-headed accusation very personally - not that I figure you care!

Johann

Thanks Johann, i certainly did not intend to offend you or anyone else on this site, however i really want to ensure that everyone is not ready to call a school that is not a degree mill a degree mill simply because the program is different than the norm.I

I actually called this school and they told me that they can do a dual program with Grandview and IUFS to complete the program and that they are an afilliate of IFUS. Your degree can come from IUFS. WES does list IUFS.

Also when I look on employment ads about 5% ask for an acccredited degree.

[DRJ]

Yes you are right, I did get a formal history lesson about the Navy(specific to the organization) it lasted 2 days. Also you don't need history about engineering because it is a progressive trade and not regressive. You only need the principles of engineering to perform well.

The school is listed if you look on the site and choose Russia and the degree recieved. I did type the name wrong however, it is WES.

I think you missed my point but that is OK. It is interesting that you continue to ask us for approval. If you really want to take the journey your way then just do it. You ask the board for some ideas and for some input and then argue that we are wrong when we do not agree with your way.

You have been given some really great advice that will help you complete a degree at a reasonable price, within a reasonable time frame and one that will have utility in the work place.

Good luck and please check back in once you have "earned" your degree to let us know how things are working out.

[DRJ]

Brian -

I'm gonna be outa here for quite a while. Maybe back to lurk in a a year or two. I think I know how this mess will turn out, so I can skip the finale...Good luck in your research!

Johann


Unfortunate. You have a lot of great information for the board. Good luck.

[johann]

Hi -

ONE LAST NOTE - I goofed. I take back ANYTHING GOOD I said about IUFS. The good stuff referred to another school.

The INTERESTING SCHOOL that had the unique, Siberian-flavoured courses, and offered many Grad-level courses at $199 per 3-credit course was NOT IUFS. Too darn many acronyms to remember! It was FENU - Far Eastern National University www.fenu.ru.

This school has a large bricks-and-mortar campus in Vladivostok and thousands of day-students. It was established in 1899 and has partnerships with known accredited institutions in USA, Australia and Japan. It claims top academic ranking in its region. The website appears well-organized and up-front as far as information goes. Have a look --it's one of the most interesting school sites I've ever seen!

IUFS on the other hand, does not interest me at all. It's just another in Brian's never-ending list of um..."schools" that he asks us to connect the dots on, although he's "researched" them already, supposedly. When we connect the dots and the result is not to his satisfaction (as it never is) he accuses us of faulty research or lack of knowledge. That's why I've decided to leave this forum. By the way, I've read considerable "bad press" on IUFS to support my position.

Check this google-translated German page -typical of what I've read. IUFS CLAIMS to be recognized by the Russian Ministry, as does American Coastline University, a known mill linked with IUFS. The claims of State recognition by both um.."schools" appear to be FALSE!

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.gomopa.net/Finanzforum/Doktor-Adelstitel-Diplomatenpaesse/Illegal-operierende-American-Coastline-University.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIUFS%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%2 6sa%3DN

As I've said before, despite my Germanic pen-name, I'm English and my German isn't great (40-odd years ago). However, I DO know the untranslated term "Wiederholungsstudien" on the page simply means "repeat studies," (likely in the sense of review, imo.) And the phrase "Title mill" would be more familiar to Americans as "degree mill."

If after reading this, your stomach hasn't churned enough and you want to check out American Coastline University (probably NEXT on Brian's list!) check here ... www.amercoastuniv.edu WHOOPS! The site is DOWN! The cached version (Google) says American Coastline is "an agent of and Branch Division of IUFS" Well, now we know! One mill that's an agent and branch of another mill!

Rather than have my research skills slagged by folks like Brian, I'm going to spend my forum-time taking courses that will probably NEVER lead to a degree. I graduated from college 4 times between the ages of 47 and 61 and I'm now old enough I'll never be handing out another resume. I plan to take stuff I like - period. There'll be more courses in Latin (5 rewarding years in my youth) plus Biblical Greek and Hebrew, antiques, philosophy, music and art history and digital imaging. I've been doing film photography for 30-odd years and I got a lovely digital camera from my son at Christmas. So, a whole 'nother skill-set to learn!

Good luck with the forum, ShotoJuku, Kyle, DRJ, Ahmed and the rest of you good folks. I wish you well. :-)

Signing off for now....

Johann

[Brian]

Hi -

ONE LAST NOTE - I goofed. I take back ANYTHING GOOD I said about IUFS. The good stuff referred to another school.

The INTERESTING SCHOOL that had the unique, Siberian-flavoured courses, and offered many Grad-level courses at $199 per 3-credit course was NOT IUFS. Too darn many acronyms to remember! It was FENU - Far Eastern National University www.fenu.ru.

This school has a large bricks-and-mortar campus in Vladivostok and thousands of day-students. It was established in 1899 and has partnerships with known accredited institutions in USA, Australia and Japan. It claims top academic ranking in its region. The website appears well-organized and up-front as far as information goes. Have a look --it's one of the most interesting school sites I've ever seen!

IUFS on the other hand, does not interest me at all. It's just another in Brian's never-ending list of um..."schools" that he asks us to connect the dots on, although he's "researched" them already, supposedly. When we connect the dots and the result is not to his satisfaction (as it never is) he accuses us of faulty research or lack of knowledge. That's why I've decided to leave this forum. By the way, I've read considerable "bad press" on IUFS to support my position.

Check this google-translated German page -typical of what I've read. IUFS CLAIMS to be recognized by the Russian Ministry, as does American Coastline University, a known mill linked with IUFS. The claims of State recognition by both um.."schools" appear to be FALSE!

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.gomopa.net/Finanzforum/Doktor-Adelstitel-Diplomatenpaesse/Illegal-operierende-American-Coastline-University.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIUFS%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%2 6sa%3DN

As I've said before, despite my Germanic pen-name, I'm English and my German isn't great (40-odd years ago). However, I DO know the untranslated term "Wiederholungsstudien" on the page simply means "repeat studies," (likely in the sense of review, imo.) And the phrase "Title mill" would be more familiar to Americans as "degree mill."

If after reading this, your stomach hasn't churned enough and you want to check out American Coastline University (probably NEXT on Brian's list!) check here ... www.amercoastuniv.edu WHOOPS! The site is DOWN! The cached version (Google) says American Coastline is "an agent of and Branch Division of IUFS" Well, now we know! One mill that's an agent and branch of another mill!

Rather than have my research skills slagged by folks like Brian, I'm going to spend my forum-time taking courses that will probably NEVER lead to a degree. I graduated from college 4 times between the ages of 47 and 61 and I'm now old enough I'll never be handing out another resume. I plan to take stuff I like - period. There'll be more courses in Latin (5 rewarding years in my youth) plus Biblical Greek and Hebrew, antiques, philosophy, music and art history and digital imaging. I've been doing film photography for 30-odd years and I got a lovely digital camera from my son at Christmas. So, a whole 'nother skill-set to learn!

Good luck with the forum, ShotoJuku, Kyle, DRJ, Ahmed and the rest of you good folks. I wish you well. :-)

Signing off for now....

Johann

Thanks, Johann

I think that this forum could do without someone who calls all schools degree mills that don't have RA or NA. Do some good research before you jump on the degree mill bandwagon. Check out WES.org in regards to IU more complete before you shrug them off. They are listed there, just because you can not find them doesn't mean that they are not there. Research a little more. You have several degrees, you can find it.

If someone like me challenges you, forcing you to vacate the forum, then you give up very easy. That is the difference with life long scholars and good old fashion hard workers. My research is pretty good and does add value to this forum. Just because it is not the subjects that you want to talk about does not devalue my comments and research.

I am sure you are a good guy Johann and I don't take the personal attacks personal. We simply have a difference of opinion on the subject of schools, probably because you have spent a pile of money getting those degrees and you very well should be proud of them. I have not but have done pretty well for myself with out them. I'm sure I could have excelled with a degree.

Take Care and dont quit so easy.

Brian

[Ahmed]

Brian

Any place that sells diplomas and degrees without studies is a mill, that you have to understand, no-one recognises life degrees, no employer in the world will recognise a life degree.

Johann is righ by calling these places mills and rightfully so, and you are right that all non RA schools are not mills. but most are.

So, dont waste your $'s and time, choose the right school

Good Luck

[DRJ]

Thanks, Johann

I think that this forum could do without someone who calls all schools degree mills that don't have RA or NA. Do some good research before you jump on the degree mill bandwagon. Check out WES.org in regards to IU more complete before you shrug them off. They are listed there, just because you can not find them doesn't mean that they are not there. Research a little more. You have several degrees, you can find it.

If someone like me challenges you, forcing you to vacate the forum, then you give up very easy. That is the difference with life long scholars and good old fashion hard workers. My research is pretty good and does add value to this forum. Just because it is not the subjects that you want to talk about does not devalue my comments and research.

I am sure you are a good guy Johann and I don't take the personal attacks personal. We simply have a difference of opinion on the subject of schools, probably because you have spent a pile of money getting those degrees and you very well should be proud of them. I have not but have done pretty well for myself with out them. I'm sure I could have excelled with a degree.

Take Care and dont quit so easy.

Brian


What you just engaged in is called an "ad hominen" argument. You ridiculed Johann and not his argument. This is a favourite tactic of politicians.

If you found reference on the WES site then show it to us. I did not see it either and WES is one of the evaluation services used by my College.

On a final note. I did very well in life without a degree. One of my favourite quotes is from Mark Twain; " I have never let schooling get in the way of my education". Much to my suprise my schooling has been a constant stream of eureka moments as I began to see the nuances of my education. Jump in! The water is fine.

[Ahmed]

Dont hate the player, hate the game, its no use attacking Johann, his argument is valid. So reply accordingly

[Brian]

Dont hate the player, hate the game, its no use attacking Johann, his argument is valid. So reply accordingly

I am not attacking Johann at all, honestly. It took me about 3 minutes to find this on WES. I know I am no smarter or a better researcher than Johann, I on the other hand had a greater desire to find it because it was of personal value to me. I actually like Johann believe it or not. The unaccredted college hater does not upset me, because in the end it is that person's choice of how he wants to get to his goals in life.

I remember when distance education was looked at as the most useless thing in the world, and look at it now. It has made the traditional campus tremble. The untraditional approace, such as experience to obtain a degree will someday be a common practice accepted by employers whether anyone likes it or not. There is value there also and employers know it. Employers like chance takers and people who are confident in their abilities. These people get to high places. Non-chance takers who are educated, are admission counselors at local community colleges. Be adventurous, live life to the fullest, take some chances, life is short.

PS: Sometimes I argue with people and may sometimes unknowenly offend someone but it is not intentional.

[DRJ]

I am not attacking Johann at all, honestly. It took me about 3 minutes to find this on WES. I know I am no smarter or a better researcher than Johann, I on the other hand had a greater desire to find it because it was of personal value to me. I actually like Johann believe it or not. The unaccredted college hater does not upset me, because in the end it is that person's choice of how he wants to get to his goals in life.

I remember when distance education was looked at as the most useless thing in the world, and look at it now. It has made the traditional campus tremble. The untraditional approace, such as experience to obtain a degree will someday be a common practice accepted by employers whether anyone likes it or not. There is value there also and employers know it. Employers like chance takers and people who are confident in their abilities. These people get to high places. Non-chance takers who are educated, are admission counselors at local community colleges. Be adventurous, live life to the fullest, take some chances, life is short.

PS: Sometimes I argue with people and may sometimes unknowenly offend someone but it is not intentional.

Really good. Where is the link to WES?

Let us go back to the 'ad hominen' attack " I really like Johann", " the unaccredited college hater does not upset me". If this is what you choose to use as argument then I have two words for you: Piss off.

I agree with you that employers "like chance takers and people who are confident of their abilities" but they dislike charlatans, cheates and liars. If you choose to misrepresent yourself, either by claiming work experience you do not have or educational credits you did not earn, then you are a fraud.

[Brian]

WOW DRJ,

You sure do have a strong negative attitude about an opinion that is not like your own. Might I suggest some anger mgt classes.

Look, I do not write things on this forum to get anyone's approval. I write only to get the answers that I personally want, and to give truthful, honest answers as to what I would do. No one must think like me. I do not get angry. I want to give honest info unlike a number of people on this forum who only want to give accredited college(special interest) info.You guys should become lobbyist in D.C. with your political special interest attitudes.

Frankly, I really don't care what you think about the way I would operate in obtaining a position. I only care what my abilities are. Accredited Degree or Life Experience Degree, It goes a little something like this "either you can or you can't" that is what getting a job and being able to perform it is all about. I am gonna get a job that I know I can perform, however I can get it. Not having an accredited degree certainly is not gonna stop me.

If it takes getting a life experience degree to get the job, So What! If I perform the job up to or exceed the standards of the company then everyone is happy. Just because I didn't blow a pile of money on a degree that has an accreditation does not decrease my capabilities nor does it make me feel like I am less of a person, or less qualified.

Some people need an accredited degree like they need air to breathe. If they do not have that, they would be the 2nd shift fry cook at McDonalds or something, because they do not have enough common sense to do it without that piece of paper. Other people can get somewhere on common sense, desire to succeed, self education, strong work ethic, and oh yea, a Life Experience Degree.

[DRJ]

WOW DRJ,

You sure do have a strong negative attitude about an opinion that is not like your own. Might I suggest some anger mgt classes.

Look, I do not write things on this forum to get anyone's approval. I write only to get the answers that I personally want, and to give truthful, honest answers as to what I would do. No one must think like me. I do not get angry. I want to give honest info unlike a number of people on this forum who only want to give accredited college(special interest) info.You guys should become lobbyist in D.C. with your political special interest attitudes.

Frankly, I really don't care what you think about the way I would operate in obtaining a position. I only care what my abilities are. Accredited Degree or Life Experience Degree, It goes a little something like this "either you can or you can't" that is what getting a job and being able to perform it is all about. I am gonna get a job that I know I can perform, however I can get it. Not having an accredited degree certainly is not gonna stop me.

If it takes getting a life experience degree to get the job, So What! If I perform the job up to or exceed the standards of the company then everyone is happy. Just because I didn't blow a pile of money on a degree that has an accreditation does not decrease my capabilities nor does it make me feel like I am less of a person, or less qualified.

Some people need an accredited degree like they need air to breathe. If they do not have that, they would be the 2nd shift fry cook at McDonalds or something, because they do not have enough common sense to do it without that piece of paper. Other people can get somewhere on common sense, desire to succeed, self education, strong work ethic, and oh yea, a Life Experience Degree.

Let us disect the conversation a little. You attack a member of the forum who has been trying to offer you advise based on your questions. When I tell you that this is not acceptable and that you should go away it is not an anger issue but one of frustration that you resort to this tactic. ( you are far to clever ).

Your second paragraph says it all "I write only to get the answers that I personally want," and that is the sad part of our exchange. The rest of your post simply says " I will screw the world to get what I want" and that is a pretty sad statement about your moral and ethical compass.

I think this board has tried to engage you in reasonable conversation. We have listened to your ideas and offered reasoned debate in return. Your response, like the post noted above, degenerates into personal attacks or defensive posture once your position has been compromised.

I will disengage myself from further exchange unless you offer egregious advise to a poster.

[ShotoJuku]

Open-friendly-lively and passionate debate and discussion is welcomed here at all times. Open anger, ridicule and otherwise name calling is not.

Simply agree to disagree and then move on.

Now, what's for lunch? :

[Brian]

Thanks DRJ,

I appreciate the disengagement. I am being real and not like you who is trying to devalue a person's education through experience. I am not intentionally trying to attack anyone. If you give responses that are easily a target for attack then I would say that you need to look at the things that you are telling people. Fire fighters and some police officers a few years did not need a college degree to perform their job as long as they had the ability to do the job. That has changed and now a college degree is required in many cases. Are you willing to call the people that did this job before there was a degree requirement unintelligent or any less able to perform their duties. I sure am not.

I believe in abilities more than theory training such as college. If you have the time and money, getting an accredited degree is best. If you don't have the money to shell out $300 per credit hour or more then use what you have the resources for. Using your only option available is not unethical as long as you have the ability to do the job and have the knowledge, no matter how it was obtained. Do you think Julius Ceasar went to West Point to get 4 years of training in war tactics? No, he learned from experience and common sense how to defeat his enemy. He had a mentor; on the job training. I IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM CONDONE USING A LIFE EXPERIENCE DEGREE TO GET A JOB THAT YOU CAN NOT DO, OR HAVE BEEN PROPERLY TRAINED IN.

If an accredited degree makes you feel good, then good for you. What makes me feel good is having the knowledge to do a particular job and making more money for my family to have a better life. A $225 L.E. degree is OK for some people, but it has to be a special person to use it. Are you confident in your ability? It sounds like an accredited degree is your security blanket. I am a free person and I live life free. I will not accept restrictions on me. I think I can do almost anything if I am trained(this does not mean sitting in a class for years). You can bash me if you like about my philosophy on this subject but my life experience is warranted a degree. I am currently pursuing my accredited degree. This is to satisify people like you and to show myself that I can do it. Until I have completed it, I may get a L.E. Degree, who knows!

Understand that every person is individual and you must reply in this forum as such. If you really want to give good advice then put aside your own agenda and help everyone, not only the person who thinks like you. are you gonna tell me that the poor people in Africa do not deserve a chance in life because they may not be able to afford an accredited degree? These people are as smart as you and I. There is probably some part of their life experience that makes them an expert in something. Do you agree? Peace Out!

[Brian]

Thanks DRJ,

I appreciate the disengagement. I am being real and not like you who is trying to devalue a person's education through experience. I am not intentionally trying to attack anyone. If you give responses that are easily a target for attack then I would say that you need to look at the things that you are telling people. Fire fighters and some police officers a few years did not need a college degree to perform their job as long as they had the ability to do the job. That has changed and now a college degree is required in many cases. Are you willing to call the people that did this job before there was a degree requirement unintelligent or any less able to perform their duties. I sure am not.

I believe in abilities more than theory training such as college. If you have the time and money, getting an accredited degree is best. If you don't have the money to shell out $300 per credit hour or more then use what you have the resources for. Using your only option available is not unethical as long as you have the ability to do the job and have the knowledge, no matter how it was obtained. Do you think Julius Ceasar went to West Point to get 4 years of training in war tactics? No, he learned from experience and common sense how to defeat his enemy. He had a mentor; on the job training. I IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM CONDONE USING A LIFE EXPERIENCE DEGREE TO GET A JOB THAT YOU CAN NOT DO, OR HAVE BEEN PROPERLY TRAINED IN.

If an accredited degree makes you feel good, then good for you. What makes me feel good is having the knowledge to do a particular job and making more money for my family to have a better life. A $225 L.E. degree is OK for some people, but it has to be a special person to use it. Are you confident in your ability? It sounds like an accredited degree is your security blanket. I am a free person and I live life free. I will not accept restrictions on me. I think I can do almost anything if I am trained(this does not mean sitting in a class for years). You can bash me if you like about my philosophy on this subject but my life experience is warranted a degree. I am currently persuing my accredited degree. This is to satisify people like you and to show myself that I can do it. Until I have completed it, I may get a L.E. Degree, who knows!

Understand that every person is individual and you must reply in this forum as such. If you really want to give good advice then put aside your own agenda and help everyone, not only the person who thinks like you. are you gonna tell me that the poor people in Africa do not deserve a chance in life because they may not be able to afford an accredited degree? These people are as smart as you and I. There is probably some part of their life experience that makes them an expert in something. Do you agree? Peace Out!

[noshi]

It shows that it is accredited with United States Department of Veteran's Affairs...if u visit their web site its name is also there.is it true or fake