Midwest Missouri University

[kenhil]

Hie guys , just to check with you all about this university . I've been browse their website at www.mmuedu.us but it seems alot of details about this university is unclear like year of establish , who is president and so on .

Perhapes some of you can give some idea regarding this university . Through their website it seems they are active in Malaysia , Canada and Bangladesh .

Thanks !

[ShotoJuku]

A Member of United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA)

[kenhil]

Well , thanks for the information . I just get to know that . Anyone 1 know what is the status of this university ? Is it a mill or what ?

[ShotoJuku]

As the "USDLA" is not recognized by either CHEA or the US-DOE, I would have to say "MILL."

[Unregistered]

HI THERE ALL

Does that mean that all universities outside the USA, that are not on the CHEA list are "mills"

Ahmed

[johann]

Hi Ahmed -

"Are all universities outside the USA that are not on the CHEA list mills?"

Common sense SHOULD provide the answer! No, a university that is OUTSIDE the U.S. but properly chartered and accredited in its own country - that's not a mill, generally speaking.

(However, if the country is some war-torn corrupt haven for offshore "goatbags", to use Dr. George Gollin's apt term, or a spot in the ocean where "accreditation" is a $5 rubber stamp - then a mill is a mill, wherever it's domiciled.)

Let's get back to the subject: Midwest Missouri, like Breyer State, has no CHEA-recognized accreditation. I could not find any website evidence of proper recognition in Bangladesh, Canada or Malaysia, either. ... Worse, unlike Breyer State, Midwest Missouri claims accreditation from an unrecognized accreditor - USDLA. I don't like that at all! No accreditation at all is one notch more honest - although no better!

Wow, you must really like these ... er... "schools", Ahmed. The time you spend defending them! Seeing that your own country has excellent education standards, I am at a loss to understand why.

Then again, I really don't want to know!

Johann

[johann]

Hey, Kenhil -

I don't understand it -

You asked Degreeinfo about this school, today.

Someone replied that the address (per Google Earth) was a single-family house on a tree-lined street and "I think we can safely call this one a mill."

You THEN asked "What's their degree granting status? Is it a degree mill?"

What the....! (Already asked and answered!)

If you guys want to know more about the school's address, 108 Arundel, see the thread in the Accredited/Unaccredited section of the forum (Nov 8th) at

www.degreeinfo.com

Johann

[ShotoJuku]

OK, I understand the outside the USA issue, however the name of the school is a USA State and the non-recognized accreditor has US in its name.

That alone stands to reason that it would be operating INSIDE the USA and thus would be considered a MILL inside the USA.

[Unregistered]

Very suprise! How come Malaysia Ministry of Higher Education allowed this bogus university to operate?

[Unregistered]

Hi Everyone/Johann

I just had that feeling you would answer my question, anway, I think I should represent graduates from unaccredited institutions in Texas, Oregeon & Maine.

On a more seriuos note it is definetly common sense that Degrees from other countries would not be unaccredited if it is accredited in the domestic country. I was asking the question in response to one of the respondents that says if its not on the CHEA list, its a mill. Fortunately South Africa is not a war-torn country, that charges $5 for a degree, I think they would charge $10.

Yes we do have some good schools here all accredited, equal to Regional Accreditation, if anyone is intrested you can check them out at www.firststeps.co.za. or www.mba.co.za.They are very affordable and accrdited, but the entrance requirements may be though.

One cannot claim that any school in unaccredited in the US, because accreditation in a volunatary process, so I am sure there are some good schools that are not on the list regonised by the USDOE, thus unacredited. (****, same topic again- accredition).

Anyways this debate will never end, until the education department in the US, centralise accreditation, an make it a law that if the institution is not accredited, it cannot operate, like we have here.

Good Luck
Ahmed

[johann]

Hi Ahmed -

You're right on several points.

S.A. has excellent universities. Many people from U.S. and other countries are justly proud of their distance-ed degrees from South Africa. From what I've heard, entrance requirements etc. can be described as "tough but fair" and low cost has been -and still is- an added attraction.

When I referred to "corrupt, war-torn countries" that "sell" accreditation, of course I was not referring to South Africa, but another African country that has been a haven for offshore mills. We all know which one, I'm sure.

You're right also that accreditation is voluntary - and that the accreditation debate is endless.

What I DON'T follow is the idea that just because accreditation is voluntary, you can't call a school "unaccredited" if it chooses not to be accredited (or fails to achieve it!) If it's NOT accredited, it's UNaccredited!!

It has to be one or the other - or it defies logic!

If I don't wash for a week, then I'm UNWASHED -whether or NOT washing is voluntary! Reason insists that I HAVE to be one or the other!

An unaccredited school is not NECESSARILY a degree mill - certainly, there are some unaccredited religious schools that are "tough as nails." Nations University comes to mind. It has an excellent reputation, costs $100 a year (free to non-U.S. students) and there WAS a way in to an accredited M.A. program in Bible Studies in Tennessee, once you graduate from Nations. I just couldn't find the link today. Nations still has their own Master's program, though. Check out www.nationsu.org

So please don't say "Johann says ALL unaccredited schools are no good!"

In secular schools, an unaccredited school may be good (few), substandard (quite a few) or a mill (many). Good or bad, there are severe constraints on the usefulness of the unaccredited DEGREE. Because MANY are complete fakes, folks are suspicious of them ALL. I won't harp on the well-known statutes about improper use of such degrees -for employment purposes etc.

You have to accept the fact that if you want to go further, unaccredited degrees won't get you ANYWHERE in the world of accredited schools!

(One MIGHT get you a cool job in a government-sponsored think-tank though! Seriously, I've seen people bluff their way into those in more than one country, with COMPLETELY bogus degrees!) I've also seen people with unaccredited doctorates teaching at the SAME school they got the Ph.D. from - that might be a career path!!

What I'm saying is - NOT ACCREDITED = UNACCREDITED. Secular unaccredited degrees are VERY LIMITED-USE CREDENTIALS!

As to what Ahmed said about maybe making Unaccredited U.S. schools cease operation - well, it's happening, but only in some places. Wyoming used to be a haven for unaccredited schools, but the State passed a law requiring schools to seek proper accreditation (RA or NA) or leave Wyoming.

Look at www.detc.org and you'll see a lot of Wyoming schools applying for DETC accreditation -so they can stay in Wyoming. Some others, who KNOW they'd never make it, have already left!

You're right, Ahmed - substandard universities are not a problem in S.A. because the government doesn't allow them. Other countries, take note!

Cheers :-)

Johann

[Unregistered]

Dear Johann,

You are right.

The problem is Midwest Midwest Missouri University claimed to be a legit American university but we can't find their degree granting status!

Thank.

Muthu

[Unregistered]

Hi all

I agree with Johann (hate to agree with you, but I have no choice, Johann, lol) that if a school is not accredited its unaccredited, one cannot disagree with that. The problem is that because accreditation is a voluntary process opens up a can of worms on the issue of accreditation and unaccreditation.

I also agree that if a school decides to be unaccredited, it does not mean its a bad school, but it opens the door for "mills' to come in and take advantage of this.

If one want to earn a degree to improve your chances of employment or promotion then it would be best to go the accreditation route, because employers normally would check the status of the school, but If wants a degree just to incease ones knowlegde, then state licence is the best route, becaus you would'nt want to seek employment with that degree, and it would be cheaper.

Then that would hold true for what Johann says "Secular unaccredited degrees are VERY LIMITED-USE CREDENTIALS!"

As I mentioned before because accreditation is a voluntary process, one cannot discount an unaccredited school as a substandard, because then its no longer a voluntary process, but a must.

The again I am from South Africa, Johann is from Canada, we are debating about US schools, while both our respective countries have good accredited schools- I wonder why?

Take cARE

[Unregistered]

the last message was from me
Ahmed

[johann]

Hi Ahmed -

So...we're in general agreement, I think. (You said you agree with most of what I said, and I HAVE to agree with myself, lol!)

I agree also with your statement that a state-licensed school MAY be a good route if your study is solely to increase your knowledge. I say MAY because with unaccredited schools, I feel the chances are considerably greater of finding your school is substandard. Then the instruction and required work might not increase your knowledge as much as you hoped...

That said, the bulk of the degree experience depends on the STUDENT and his individual efforts and research. A person can do good work at a bad school - learn a lot, but still end up with a degree from a bad school. Better to do good work at a GOOD school, imo! Accreditation won't GUARANTEE your desired results, knowledge-wise, either but I think the odds are better.

If a person is seriously going to work at it, I think they deserve to attain a degree that has utility. If they don't care about utility -- then they can make their own choice. They could always save the money ENTIRELY by directed self-study! That's a valid option!

Why are we talking about U.S. Distance Learning, when we both live in countries with excellent resources? Well, didn't you say you were a Breyer State man? As for me - It's like going shopping for anything else in the U.S! I'm always amazed at the selection!

Shopping in the U.S. for just about anything is a VERY common weekend occupation among Canadians - the bulk of us live within 75 miles of the border. When it comes to Distance learning - yes, we have good schools in Canada, and a fair selection of programs, but there are just are SO many more schools and programs in the U.S. I could name many DL opportunities that simply don't exist as such in Canada.... but yeah, it IS a minefield!

Anyway, that's why I got interested in U.S. distance Ed. I'll continue to be interested in what other countries offer, too. In my mind only, I became a constable in the "Degree Mill Police" a few years back. I was surfing on Palmers Green, which is the London suburb I left at age 9...

I kept getting hits on "University of Palmers Green" which was an infamous scam, later shut down by the British Authorities. I was further amazed to see how many people carried this time-bomb in their web-résumés! One computer repair guy with a website here in my Canadian home town sported an I.T. degree supposedly from Palmers Green University! I've been quite an avid follower of degree-mill exploits since!

Last for today: Muthu and the Midwest Missouri-seekers, this is for you!
WHAT "degree granting status" do you hope to find? It's in a single-family HOUSE on a tree-lined street! No CHEA-recognized accreditation! "Accredited" by an outfit on CHEA's "unrecognized" list (to put it as politely as I can) along with BOUA and WAUC and such...!

And as for "how could the Malaysian Authorities permit this?" Well, I'm sure if they've found out about it they probably won't like it, but they can hardly swoop down on the Malaysian "campus" if there ISN'T one! Not impossible, but pretty hard to do something quickly about an internet site not in your own country!

I'd particularly hate to see Malaysian students enroll at this ...er "school" because Malaysia has (imo) some FANTASTIC I.T.schools of its own. I'm just blown away by some software I have that was written by senior students at Malaysian "Cyber-Universities." Awesome!

Have a good one, people! :-)

Johann

[Unregistered]

Hi All

Johann, it is better to go the accredited route, and that is the advise I would give to anyone that want to further their career, or get promotion at work.

Now, we come to another subject that you have to have a degree from an accredited institution listed on the USDOE, or your degree is unaccedited, that makes the accreditation process no longer mandatory, but now a must/compulsory.

Its the same as saying to "er" school : 'You do not have to participate in the accreditation process, its voluntary'. Now a school decides not to participate in the accreditation, then they say its illegal to use a degree from such a school, because its unaccredited. Is that not speaking with a fork tongue?

I would say to The Dept.of Education to make up its mind, whether a school should get accreditation, or being listed as unaccredited, or if the process is voluntary, you cannot call any school unaccredited if it refuse to participate in the process (well, execpt for the mills, that issue degrees without studying).
Do you agree?

Johann I did study at Breyer State, but not to get a degree to seek employment, because I am my own boss, and I love it, the degree just taught me how to fire my staff with dignity (which I do often,lol).
I have one more qustion, I obtained a MBA degree from Milpark Business School in South Africa, is it accredited in the US OFFICER?
waiting for your investigation report
Thanks Constable/Officer Johann

[johann]

Once and for all -

(1) Yes Accreditation in the U.S. IS voluntary - whether you agree or not. Otherwise, the Unaccredited schools would have been shut down, wouldn't they?

(2) Yes, it should remain voluntary -whether you agree or not. First, there's the old church-and-state separation thing for religious schools, although many choose traditional accreditation or NA through TRACS. Also, as I was reminded in another forum, when it comes to schools or medical treatment, people are free to "pick their poison." If someone wants a limited-use or, worse, substandard degree - it's available, though usually at far more than a fair price.

(3) Yes, It IS FAIR to call a school without accreditation "unaccredited" even if accreditation is voluntarily. I refer to my earlier "washed vs. unwashed" argument. Surely you don't need a Breyer State degree to understand that!

(4) In my opinion, it's fair to call a widely-suspect institution an "er...school." I only refer to an "er...school" as such when its unsavoury rep. is WIDELY KNOWN already!

(5) I am ASTOUNDED that you needed your Breyer State doctorate to "fire employees with dignity!" If you are ANY kind of businessman, you should have mastered that skill without need for exalted academic status!

(6) I am no expert on education in South Africa. I do note that Milpark has a private ".co" domain, not "ac." as SAQA schools usually have. That's a warning to me - just like an American school with .com instead of .edu!

Milpark says its DEGREES are conferred by Damelin, which is another private organization with a .co domain. Damelin says nothing about degrees on its own site -just certificates etc. Damelin's only degree program seems to have been the MBA which now links you to Milpark's MBA program.

Milpark further says it is "fully accredited" - a term which is not in everyday usage in South Africa - SAQA and the Higher Education Act being the normal standards. It does not say by WHICH which accreditation body. It says it is registered with the Government as a private degree-granting institution under a certificate number.

As a resident of South Africa, you would have a better idea of what this means (if anything), than I do. I can't tell from the website. --- I CAN recognize MUCH MORE from UNISA's or any SAQA school's website!!


Milpark states "articulation agreements" "for course credits" with an Australian University and with Edinburgh Business School (which offers the respected Heriot-Watt distance MBA.) I have no idea what this means. Does it possibly mean a Milpark MBA will get you credit for certain courses - but not a full degree - at the articulating schools? Based on the wording, I have no idea.

(Interesting aside - I read of a brilliant 16-year-old attending High School here in Canada who had just COMPLETED a Heriott- Watt MBA! I believe he is the youngest on record to do so. I think he may have been about 13 when he started it!)

To sum up - I can't express an opinion on a Milpark Degree. I simply don't know enough. If I wanted to take South African Distance Ed. (not a bad idea IMO) I'd stick to a known good entity - a SAQA school. There are plenty of them!

(7) You asked me once about "cheap RA Ph.D's". Well, I don't know much about them either! Probably as rare as the "legitimate unaccredited schools" I was once asked about by someone else!

I don't think I'm made of doctoral stuff yet - maybe I'll have a higher opinion of myself in my 70s! I DO know that most Ph.D's have a residential requirement of SOME sort - maybe short, but still required. After all, at some point, SOMEBODY has to supervise all that research etc. that's going to take place!

For DL, I think the place to start looking (in the U.S.) might be Walden. (Not cheap - I don't know ANY RA cheapies!) I think you'd be better off looking at SA schools, for reasons of money and convenience.

As an alternative, you could look at a D. Phil. degree. This is basically a research doctorate. It's offered by British Universities (e.g. Liverpool) and I think it may be offered in South Africa as well. I'm sure they'd likely have some residency requirement too -often short, though.

Ahmed, I hope this helps. I think I'm through with discussing the value and voluntary-or-not nature of accreditation. Again,as I was reminded elsewhere, "people are free to pick their poison."

I think I'll just go and get on with my life now....

Cheers:-)

Johann

[Unregistered]

LOL
jOHANN

I read your re[ply. quiet interesting, I didnt have the time to reply, cos my comp. stuffed and I am using a shop computer, and its expensive, my time is almost up

I will reply soon,

Take care Buddy

[johann]

Hi Ahmed -

You have my sympathy - broken computer etc.

I've been where you are --- expensive computer time etc. I have 2 computers at home but no internet there - by choice. Too easy for people to hack me -viruses, rootkits & other malware, bots that "kidnap" your data, etc.

Right now, I'm surfing free-for-life on a college campus - I've graduated from here 3 times and use of the lab is an alumni benefit, so......they OWE me! Plus, they've got 200 machines, ALL the anti-hacker stuff and it's THEIR problem if some evil cyber-bandit in Tadjikistan brings their network down, not mine!

Good business strategy - "make all the problems someone ELSE's problems!"

By the way, there IS an unaccredited business school that I think has real cachet - Someday I ought to pay up and earn one of their diplomas --great wall-hanger!

I refer to Donald Trump University - www.trumpuniversity.com

Did a little reading today. You might want to add Capella University to your list of potential doctorate situations. They offer Ph.D. Programs, several in business-related fields. They have a program of "residential colloquia" - which means you have to be there - but not long and not often. I checked U. Phoenix also but no Ph.D. programs I could see - Ed. D. and D.B.A. mostly. I still think your homeland could offer you more bang for the buck -- or Rand, as the case may be.

Cheers - hope your ailing machine recovers! :-)

Johann

[johann]

Hi again Ahmed!

My apologies for being suspicious. It was unfamiliar territory. I've now seen that Milpark is fully accredited - by the CHE's (Council on Higher Education's) subcommittee HEQC (Higher Education Quality Commission).

Milpark and two other schools received this accreditation for MBA programs in early 2005, bringing to 17 the number of HEQC-accredited MBA programs.

I also saw a ranking sheet of "Top MBA programs" in South Africa. There were only 14 listed and Milpark was ranked 14th. Such "rankings" generally mean NOTHING to me! Probably got someone from Milpark upset, though!

Anyway - I DID read the MBA course listings and I LIKE 'em. Looks like a great school, to me! Congratulations on being an alumnus! :-)

Oh yeah - you were kidding me (sarcasm) a few posts back about Bond University (Australia) weren't you? Fine school, buddy! :-)

Johann

[nglorang]

really surprising, how the ministry of higher edu of malasiya, canada & banglades give it to run the programms

[nglorang]

[QUOTE=ShotoJuku;1813]A Member of United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA)[/QUO
being member of USDLA , is that enough to be recognized in the academic sector and does other Universities give its degrees equivalence to their univ. degree.

[Ahmed]

Midwest is not recognised by the USDOE, which automatically makes it a mill, I would suggest you stay away from this school, but the choice is yours

[johann]

Yes - as we've said SOOO many times, it's a mill. :-)

Johann

[Ahmed]

like I said before, sometimes I have to repeat myself