Ics & Kursk State Technical University Russia [Archive]

johann

02-22-2007, 06:44 PM

Hi -

I think you've spotted this one correctly - any website having a "buy now" button for your instant prior-experience credits (One price $1000) is pretty blatant.

I perked right up when I saw the letters ICS - I thought for an instant that maybe International Correspondence Schools, a reputable name since the 1890s had expanded into Russia! I wasn't surprised to find out it was a recent org. using the same acronym. Probably intentional ... but just barely possible that it isn't.

It's not the only Asian-originated scam selling Russian um.. "degrees." Seems to be the latest flavour for these operators. They're turning from being sellers of worthless "prestigious American degrees" to people who are not required to know English (or much else), to being peddlers of equally worthless "prestigious Russian degrees" to people who are not required to know Russian (or much else).

Before someone walks all over me, I KNOW there are legit French Universities that will do real VAE (credentialing via prior-experience assessment) in ENGLISH. (I am indebted to John Dovelos for a list of these - I once linked to it from this forum.)

But that has NOTHING to do with the PHONY VAE um..."schools" that use a loophole that hangs on not much more than a French business registration and address-of-convenience. Nor does the existence of legit VAE in France or legit PLA in English-speaking countries alter the scam-azoid nature of these Asian- or Russian-flavoured frauds.

These instant-or-nearly-so "American degrees" aimed at Asians, and now "Russian degrees" aimed at everybody are BOGUS and appear in part - as you have shown, Shan - to be controlled by the same heartless operators. Oh yes -- if you'd like to see something about MORE LEGITIMATE Russian-flavoured distance learning, have a look at www.fenu.ru in Vladivostok! They've been in business since 1898 and I don't think they're about to run away with your roubles like the other guys!

I think you have correctly pegged some more fraudsters, Shan! Good job! :-)

Johann "Fire and Brimstone"

johann

08-25-2008, 08:50 PM

Hi - STAY AWAY!

(1) Degrees NOT accepted in Malaysia (or anywhere else in Asia that I'm aware of!)

(2) Seems they've bought "endorsement" from Kursk but that doesn't make them legal Russian degrees either - per those smarter than me. See the degreeinfo post referenced below.

(3) A good piece of this entire machine, including CUFCE (The credential evaluator) and the Childcare service(!) seems to be owned by the Amorsolo Foundation - named after its boss, Luis Amorsolo. People have taken a pretty dim view of CUFCE's credentialing ANY OF THESE degrees -- prevailing expert opinion: it seems they lack the authority to do so. Some of the orgs CUFCE belongs to have suspicious, sound-alike names of legit bodies - but they are NOT the same.

See this post at degreeinfo: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=27628
Here's another: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/archive/index.php/t-18313.html

Here's a shot of the Management Committee at West Coast University, (licensed but no recognized accreditation) Panama, including Dr. Stephen Barnhart, Dr. Sarfraz Lloyd and Rev. Dr. Robert Ray Hill, whose listing says he's also with CUFCE, this "evaluator." Know these names? Google 'em -- and make up your own mind. http://www.westcoastuniversity.edu.pa/WCUManagementCommittee.htm Here's a link to one of our discussions of West Coast (Panama): http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-west-coast-university-497/page2.html

CUFCE also offers to give Bircham U Degree Holders equivalency to American degrees. Bircham has no recognized accreditation. Here's the Bircham-CUFCE link. http://www.bircham.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=49&Itemid=72

Here's a link from our files about Bircham:
http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-bircham-international-university-diploma-mill-2052.html/?highlight=Bircham And here's a Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bircham_International_University
Here's another CUFCE link. Apparently CUFCE was also willing to credential Concordia degrees. (Not the good Lutheran one - the well-known mill!) http://listserv.ucop.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A3=ind0506&L=UCIS-L&E=quoted-printable&P=11059&B=------_%3D_NextPart_001_01C5776E.78EB50B8&T=text%2Fplain;%20charset=US-ASCII

Sounds to me like some of you guys have a LOT of reading to catch up on, not to mention a re-ordering of most of your belief system! Good luck with that!

Johann

Christopher Heng

09-20-2008, 05:27 PM

Firstly, I wish to thanks those who have posted in this Forum indicating that California University FCE and West Coast Univerity, Panama are questionable.

I will carry out full investigation and if true, I will remove those links.

Secondly, Kursk State Technical University is a State Funded University in Russia. ICS is very strict with the academic process and todate ICS has rejected most application from students requesting for degrees without pursuing ICS' online courses (Thomson NETg). ICS has NOT recommended any student for the award of a degree from Kursk State Technical University because most people are only interested in getting a degree without any work.

So if any people in this forum who can show me that ICS sells degrees, please contact me with information.

However, I was made to know that Kursk State Technical University through the Director of Marketing has appointed a few local providers in operating courses leading to the Kursk's degrees.

Thirdly, if any people who can have real information that certain local providers are actually selling Kursk's degree, please email to me (enquiry@christopherheng.com) and I will invoke legal action against those provider(s) or otherwise inform the Director of Marketing or YOU may lodge your findings directly to Kursk State Technical University.

Last but not least, I am open to suggestion and further deliberation. Education is my passion - I don't need ICS to make money, that is why I have rejected most students in the programs eventhough I have invested a hundred thousand US$ by purchasing courses from Thomson NETg.

Thanks and hope to receive value-added information so that I can improve ICS' courses.

Baraban

09-20-2008, 07:03 PM

Not so fast.

In 1997 Russian federation passed new laws.
One of the laws is establishment of "EXTERNAT"
Here is an example of a company in NY that has EXTERNAT agreement with a State university in Russia.
I'm not surprised when we read about foreign and local education providers with EXTERNAT agreements.

iccedu.com

They have externat with DUBNA in Moscow.

They have agreement with NYU as well, NYU will accept 60 transfer credits from DUBNA - in to their BA or BS degree program etc.

This business offers degrees in half time / accelerated from NYU if oue goes their rout.
They also offer one year program to earn DUBNA Masters in Social Work degree - fully recognized and evaluated by the MSW accreditation agency in USA, I forgot their name. Board on Education of Social Work or something like that.
It is possible that an organization offers fully recognized Russian degrees that will pass NACES and licensing agencies boards.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.russianny.com/newdesign/db/yellowpages/yellowS.asp%3FToDo%3DDtl%26TypeId%3D5%26SubTypeId% 3D4030%26BusId%3D4030&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%259F%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D0%2 5B5%25D0%25BF%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B3%25D0%2 5BE%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BA%25D0%2 5B0%2B%25D0%25B2%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D1%2587%25D 0%25B5%25D0%25B9,%2B%25D1%2584%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BB %25D1%258C%25D0%25B4%25D1%2588%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580 %25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2,%2B%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BA%25D1% 2583%25D1%2588%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D0%25BE%25D0% 25B2%2B%25D0%25B2%2B%25D0%25BC%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B4 %25D1%2581%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D0%25B5 %25D1%2580%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enUS273US273

As far as Kyrsk State Technical University I didn't check their accreditation yet.
I will go to their web site and see what they have to say.

Here is one of the sites

http://www.russianenic.ru/english/cred/

Recognized Universities

The list of the recognized (accredited) universities has been composed on the data presented by the Department of Licensing, Accreditation, and Attestation of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation. The list contains core information on the listed HE institutions. In this interpretation, but in English translation accompanied by Latin transcription of the names of the universities, the list is being systematically renewed and presented by the Center to the International Universities Association for its further placement in the World Higher Education Database of recognized universities.

These are listed in the database:

Kursk institute of management, economy and business
Kurskij Institut Menedzhmenta, Ekonomiki I Biznesa

ul. Radishcheva 35 Kursk 305000
+7(0712) 56-16-28, 56-16-32, 56-72-02
+7(0712) 56-86-51
lektor@kursknet.ru
Rector OKOROKOVA Galina P.

Kursk State Academy of Agriculture 'Prof. I.I. Ivanov'
Kurskaja Gosudarstvennaja Sel'skohozjajstvennaja Akademija im. Professora I.I. Ivanova

ul. Karla Marksa 70 Kursk 305034
+7(0712) 330-605
+7(0712) 331-330
Rector MUHA Vladimir D.

Kursk State Pedagogical University
Kurskij Gosudarstvennyj Pedagogicheskij Universitet

ul. Radisheva 33 Kursk 305000
+7(0712) 560-264
+7(0712) 568-461
gvozdev@rosnet.rosmail.com
International Relations KLIMENTIEV Dmitry
Rector GVOZDEV Vyacheslav
Administrative Officer Deputy-Rector GREBENKOV Nikolaj

Kursk State Technical University
Kurskij Gosudarstvennyj Tehnicheskij Universitet

ul. 50-let Oktjabrja 94 Kursk 305039
+7(0712) 225-743
+7(0712) 561-168
rector@kstu.kursk.ru
http://www.kstu.kursk.ru
International Relations Vice-Rector Starkov Fyedor
Rector RYZHKOV Fyedor

Kursk State University of Medicine
Kurskij Gosudarstvennyj Medicinskij Universitet

ul. Karla Marksa 3 Kursk 305033
+7(0712) 225-612
+7(0712) 562-606
Rector ZAV'JALOV Aleksandr V.
International Relations Vice-Rector TZENIOS Nikolas

Now some unrecognized providers offer university of London degrees that doesn't make UoL degrees milled.
Russia allows recognized accredited universities to outsource some programs to other regions and allow licensed institutes that are not exactly accredited yet licensed by ministry of education as education providers to offer such classes or entire degree programs.
As long as this classes are registered in the supplement to the license.
So also find partners internationally as long as they are properly licensed in their country.

Is ICS awarding RUsian State National Format Diploma / Degree?
Or they award some kind of other their own document ?

As far as credential evaluation in USA if the degree or diploma are issued by Kyersk and are of the national format these degrees will be evaluated positively.

I recommend to check with NACES member US credential evaluation agencies.
Increasing number of Universities, Federal and State agencies use NACES member
credential evaluation services. Some also accept http://www.aacrao.org/international/
http://www.naces.org/.

Wile foreign credential evaluation in USA is not officially controlled / regulated by government, what allows to not so wonderful evaluation mills to exist as stated above most if not all agencies and universities work with the NACES and AACRAO.

Don't be deceived by some service who is member of AACRAO, its not the same its just membership for a fee. It has no approval or license to represent AACRAO.

Christopher Heng

09-21-2008, 03:51 AM

Dear Baraban,

Thanks for the additional information - I will check with the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific) to determine whether our appointment letter issued by Kursk State Technical University falls within the specification in your posting:

"Russia allows recognized accredited universities to outsource some programs to other regions and allow licensed institutes that are not exactly accredited yet licensed by ministry of education as education providers to offer such classes or entire degree programs.As long as this classes are registered in the supplement to the license."

ICS has been appointed by the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific) with appointment letter issued by Kursk State Technical University. ICS' online programs use THOMSON NETg's courses with each started pack comprises selected minimum three (3) units/modules to six (6) units/modules with a final assessment to be submitted online. To the best of my knowledge, ICS has been approved by the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific) to operate the said online programs using THOMSON NETg's courses.

Pertaining to your next question: "

Is ICS awarding RUsian State National Format Diploma / Degree? Or they award some kind of other their own document ?

ICS does not issue any degree - upon completion of the required online THOMSON NETg's courses with a final assessment for each course to be evaluated by ICS and a completion of a FINAL PROJECT PAPER, ICS will put forward a recommendation to the Director of Marketing for his transmission to Kursk State Technical University.

The University may request for sample of the assessment marked by ICS including the final project paper before the Director of International Marketing put forward to the academic board for the award of the degree to be issued directly by Kursk State Technical University.

Appreciated for the information and hope to get as many comments so that I can determine whether ICS is moving within the right orientation OR should ICS seek further approval from Kursk State Technical University.

Thanks.

johann

09-23-2008, 02:07 AM

Hi

The California programs do not have a good appearance, to me.

Why? Because an UNRECOGNIZED credential evaluator is used - CUFCE, which is (I believe) controlled by Luis Amorsolo's Amorsolo Foundation. It's not NACES, so its degree-equivalent evaluation of your fine Kursk "certificates" earned by completing Thomson NETg courses is therefore not meaningful.

Another name I have seen associated with CUFCE is that of "Dr." Robert Ray Hill, lately advertising in the fora for www.international-uni.us in Panama that is said (by Hill) to be merging with The International University, the well-known beast of Grandview MO, www.internationaluniversity.edu that has no US-recognized accreditation whatsoever and is somehow attached (unsavoury umbilical cord?) to the equally unrecognized Russian-domiciled beast, The International University for Fundamental Studies, www.iufs.edu home of "Grand Ph.D's" and WIDU-endorsement.

Here's a pic of Hill and reference to his CUFCE duties from the website of yet ANOTHER Panamanian um...Uni - "West Coast"
http://www.westcoastuniversity-edu.com/WCUManagementCommittee.htm

Job-seekers, do you really want a CUFCE-evaluated degree??

Johann

Christopher Heng

09-23-2008, 05:08 AM

Dear Johann,

You are RIGHT about CUFCE. Thanks for all the information.

Reasons WHY ICS established a link with CUFCE is all about getting Kursk's degree validated as comparable to a US degree. Many people were asking whether studying for a Russian Degree is good in western countries like in the United States of America.

At the genesis of all these, CUFCE was very impressive with membership noted such as NAFSA, Emerican Evaluation Association, EAIE (European Association for International Education), AIEA and not to mention, CUFCE is a BBB accredited onstitution. Moreso, the United States Department of Education is also an organizational member of AIEA.

As a result of the foregoing, it would seem to be logical (at that time) to establish a link with CUFCE so that any graduate from Kursk State Technical University who may wish to obtain a comparable U.S. degree may submit the said evaluation. The said link is merely to facilitate people who still think that a degree from any American University is better than any state government University in Russia!!!

In view of the valid information provided by your goodself (Johann) and Baraban, I have requested ICS to remove the link with CUFCE and West Coast University, Panama (ICS has received direct confirmation from West Coast University (USA) - NOT the same University eventhough the name is the same).

With more information and suggestion provided through this forum, I hope ICS will be able to move within the right orientation in providing online learning for motivated adults.

Christopher Heng, CA CPA CFP RFP FCCA FCMA FTII FCPA(Aust)
BA(Eckerd, Florida)
MBA(University of Wales, UK)
D.Sc. (KSTU, Russia)

johann

09-24-2008, 12:05 AM

Hi

No more CUFCE? Wow, THAT was quick!

CUFCE is a BBB accredited onstitution. - Christopher Heng

Since when is the Better Business Bureau an accreditation agency?

As far as I know, BBB membership means NOTHING about academic standards or accreditation. I somehow don't think the Better Business Bureau was established with that in mind! I shouldn't chuckle too loudly, I guess - I once (and only once) saw BBB membership used elsewhere in the guise of "accreditation" on some Degree Mill site! It reminds me of yet another Degree Mill - this one in the Pacific - that used its ISO2001 certification as "accreditation." (I wonder what the ISO standards are for Degree Mills?)

As to CUFCE's other associations -- well, there's always their claim of "accreditation" by the (100% legit) Association of American Universities. That claim led to a "cease and desist" order from the AAU!

Well, now you've taken CUFCE out of the equation - a wise move, i.m.o., how are the holders of the Kursk Certificates going to get their American Bachelor's, Master's or Doctoral equivalencies?

What CUFCE did was to issue a nice-looking diploma that LOOKED like a degree. One that said "California University" in fancy type and listed the degree equivalency below. NACES members won't do that! They don't stand ready with a paper-only "Boilerplate University" that they own and are willing to press into service daily for that purpose!

If you're sincere in wanting your Kursk Certificate grads to get bona-fide American degree equivalencies, I think you should have started out with a NACES evaluator. Talk to one!

In case folks out there haven't seen CUFCE before, you can find most of the of links in the sausage-chain through these two below for starters!

http://www.degreeboard.com/forums/Accreditation-Matters-f46/california-university-t708/
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=27628

I think Kursk itself is likely a VERY good school. Like many schools in its home country, it's probably also desperately cash-strapped and has had to rush its entry into business arrangements that its administrators might have otherwise taken a lot more time thinking through. I hope it (endorsing courses taken elsewhere etc.) turns out well for Kursk. It might. University of Wales (one of your almae matres, Christopher!) does it for many schools. No problems I know of thus far. As Baraban posted today, Thomson NETg has been in the Russian market since 2004 and these products are also used in some American DETC schools, e.g. Cardean University.

You need to work on the American equivalency thing if you're going to market this school in the U.S. Here's hoping...

Johann

Christopher Heng

09-25-2008, 05:56 PM

Dear Johann

Yes - No more CUFCE. I have instructed my webdesigner to do away with CUFCE. I should have participated in this Forum to know more about those deceptive organizations long ago.

You are right again Johann - BBB is merely an organization that stipulated certain conditions in pursuing ONE OWN BUSINESS and for sure BBB is NOT an accreditation agency.

Currently I am working very closely with a recognised University College in Malaysia (MOU signed) so that Bachelor's holders may pursue their Master at this University College in Malaysia. and Master's holders may apply for either top-up with a Master's from this University College OR continue on with their Doctoral study.

I will continue to check with Universities in the United States to explore possible transfer of credits or other arrangement to facilitate "top-up" degrees - this time I will try my level best to be carefull in my search.

Maybe you may suggest some fairly good Universities (especially innovative online yet recognised DETC Universities in the United States) that may accept transfer of credits basing on Kursk's degrees.

Thanks again for your informative comments.

Christopher Heng

Baraban

09-25-2008, 09:29 PM

I will interject some thoughts.

Kyrks degrees are fully accredited and with good evaluation lets say by ECE or WES all that will stop the credits to be accepted is if the credits are outdated and basically according to the universities transfer credit policies.

New York University - NYU accepts credits to transfer from DUBNA in Russia.
They will not award whole degree based on that no university will do that.
But a person will have to take classes.

The big 3 accept 100% transfer credit as long as classes mach.

johann

09-26-2008, 01:48 AM

Hi Baraban. Hi Christopher.

Yes, I think it would be a pretty sure thing that a Kursk DEGREE would rate a pretty good equivalency from a NACES evaluator.

Trouble is, in the Kursk-ICS program (according to the California program info) we're dealing with Certificates, NOT DEGREES, issued by Kursk. Earning them is based on completing Thomson NETg courses provided by ICS.

(Institute of Chartered Strategists, NOT International Correspondence Schools, although that long-established - 1890 - school ALSO has links to the Thomson Co.)

For a fee, CUFCE was evaluating these honest, NON-DEGREE certificates issued by Kursk as equivalent to American Bachelor's, Master's and Doctoral degrees. They even went so far as to issue a nice diploma with their captive "California University" heading and the degree equivalency underneath.

I doubt that a REAL evaluator would so easily give the same high equivalency for these NON-DEGREE Kursk certificates. A Kursk DEGREE would likely be no problem -- but these things ---I dunno. I have a couple of certificates from a fine University - but they know, and I know - those two papers are NOT degrees! Worth some credits -yes, but nowhere near a degree.

Christopher - I doubt you'll find a DETC school willing to simply "exchange" this paperwork for one of their degrees. I'm not sure, but I don't think DETC would allow one of their schools to do this. It's not usual for a North American accredited achool to award an entire degree for work that is ALL done elswhere. The only exceptions to this I know of are the distance "Big 3," all RA, www.cosc.edu www.tesc.edu and www.excelsior.edu , plus www.athabascau.ca , a Canadian distance school (also RA for US students) Athabasca's 3 year B.G.S. can be done externally, I believe, but there's a limit on transfer credits for all other programs.

If you presented a good case for it, I suppose you might be able to persuade one or more of these schools into allowing a certain number of transfer credits for the Kursk certificates towards a degree from their school.

Other than the schools mentioned above, the highest acceptable number of transfer credits toward a bachelor's degree that I know of is 99 out of approximately 120 - at Ashford University www.ashford.edu - an RA school.

If, as you said, you want to talk to a "good" DETC school -- they're ALL good! Go to www.detc.org and you'll get a complete listing with websites and contact info etc. You might also want to talk to other non-DETC Nationally Accredited schools - any distance-education providers accredited by ACICS or ACCSCT, for instance.

I don't know what kind of collaborative program you could devise - I'm pretty sure it would have to be something far more complex than signing/endorsing diplomas for a fee - but what do I know? :)

Good luck.

Johann

Baraban

09-28-2008, 08:45 AM

Any comments on the following?

West Coast University (WCU) is recognized by Universidad San Juan de la Cruz:

Universidad San Juan de la Cruz formally known as University San Juan de la Cruz is a Recognized and Accredited University by the Ministry of Education, Government of the Republic of Costa Rica, Central America through The National Council on Higher Education Private Universities (CONESUP).

San Juan de la Cruz University is listed in UNESCO under International Association of Universities under Costa Rica and also enlisted in International Handbook of Universities an Official/Directory of International Accredited Universities Published by United Nations.

San Juan de la Cruz University has duly evaluated and recognized West Coast University (WCU) Panama as an educational institution of equivalent quality & integrity and consequently has signed credit transfer agreement with WCU as such credits earned at West Coast university shall be 100% eligible for transfer to San Juan de la Cruz University for the grant of respective diploma/degree by the San Juan de la Cruz University to the graduates of West Coast University (WCU) Panama as per mutually agreed terms and conditions of the agreement signed by both Institutions.

Christopher Heng

09-28-2008, 03:25 PM

Dear Baraban & Johann

According to our Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific), Kusrk State Technical University has already made certain MOU or other exchange programs with certain reputable universities in the United Kingdon, Spain, China, and the United States. DETC schools will NOT be recognised by the Russian authorities unless the DETC are parties to the UNESCO Convention.

Kursk State Technical University is a government owned university of the Russian Federation. The University is funded by the State and governed in accordance with the State Educational Standard of Russian Federation. The University was founded in 1964 and offers opportunities for learners to earn Diploma, Bachelors, Masters, Doctoral Level degrees. The University offers unrivaled expertise in providing qualifications that are widely recognized as hallmarks of achievement of skills and competencies. The University is well recognized and accepted in Russia as well as in other countries.

With globalization and growing mobility of human resources, labour and information special attention is paid to the issue of recognition of Russian Credentials outside Russia. To secure the rights of the holders of Russian credentials, Russian Federation has joined 15 international multilateral conventions and agreements on recognition matters. In particular:

1) UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Studies, Diplomas and Degrees of Higher Education for the European Region (1979).

2) UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Studies, Diplomas and Degrees of Higher Education for the Asia-Pacific Region (1983).

3) UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Qualifications of Higher Education (1997) European States.

Russia joined Bologna Declaration dealing with recognition and European Credit Transfer System matters. This event took place on the summit of European education ministers on 17 Septemper 2004 to 19 September 2004. Russia became a member of the European Education Association.

Any person graduating with a first degree (Bachelor's degree) from Kursk State Technical University may be accepted to pursue a Master's degree by those universities. A graduate with Master's degree from Kursk State Technical University may do the same to further his/her Doctoral study in those University.

Do the degree show that the degree was earned through distance learning or ICS e-learning?

No - all degree certificates are issue with the same standard degree certificates without any reference to distance learning or e-learning.

The online e-learning programs offered by ICS-KURSK collaboration hold the same status and are subject to the same stringent quality controls as any campus school with all degrees issue by the Kursk State Technical University.

What about residential requirement?

The virtual setting allows motivated adult learners to earn degrees entirely by independent study. Learners may, however, request to study at Kursk’s campus in Russia for Russian Language and Russian History and Culture as part of the two (2) electives.

Thanks again.

Christopher

Baraban

09-28-2008, 04:28 PM

Kursk State University degree is recognized degree.

What is not clear is the certificates, picture of one of them on ICS web site.
These certificates are not Kursk degree. Nor they are academic certificates that come with academic credit.
They don't come with GPA and have no academic value of credit one earns from attending a degree class.

These certificates may have vocational value.
But as Johann mentioned no legitimate NACES member service in USA or NARIC in UK will evaluate these certificates as equivalent to degree.

Can you elaborate a little bit more about these certificates?

If Kursk is taking lets say these 8 or 10 certificates and in the end issuing
a reak degree of national format with transcript as a supliment to diploma then yes.

This things are easy to verify, Kursk do answer their phones and emails.
A person communicated to me that he already has an appointment with rector of Kyrsk Dr Emelyanov and Dr Zubarev head of international cooperation board from his interest in this situation, he wants to do the same business as you. For last 10 years he is working with 2 Russian state universities and NYU and Russian immigrant community in the USA.
He is a well known Dr in the education field in former Soviet union and a business man here in NY.
He will post here after he finds out what type of program is this.
If ICS offer real Kyrsk academic degree of National Russian Format then its great deal.
Of its some certificates that have no academic value then its not good deal.

johann

09-28-2008, 07:06 PM

Hi

Christopher, I think there may have been a wee bit of fancy-dancing around the topic here, recently. :)

First - the value and North American academic equivalencies of Kursk DEGREES are not in dispute. They never were - so you don't need to re-iterate that Kursk is a good, legit Russian school. We're well aware of that. We're talking about the NON-DEGREE Kursk Certificates shown in your ICS (California) program.

Your postings have been replete with references to a Director of MARKETING. In fact, marketing seems to have prevailed over academic considerations so far in this discussion - and I'd like that to CHANGE for a bit...

As I said earlier, the wind seems to shift quite frequently and I'm asking these questions so I can keep up with the full picture and plans re: the ICS/Kursk collaboration:

(1) YOU are the person who mentioned you wanted Kursk/ICS to establish a partnership - I'm not sure of exactly what type - with "a good DETC school." Has that prospect "gone out the window" now because Kursk will only team up with a Unesco signatory?

(2) Baraban and I have both brought to your attention that the Kursk Certificates (ICS California program) are NOT Kursk Degrees and you have not yet responded to our question:

As what academic equivalent - and by whom - do you hope to have these NON-DEGREE certificates recognized, now that the days of CUFCE-printed unrecognized Bachelors', Masters' and Doctorates are over.

I think marketing has caused some confusion. Please clarify these points for us. :)

Johann

johann

09-28-2008, 07:51 PM

Hi Baraban

We had a longish thread on West Coast Panama a while back. The only people who defended its legitimacy had signed up as students. Can't blame them for trying to "protect" their ...uh...investment, I guess. Here's the thread: http://online.degree.net/accredited-unaccredited-state-approved-diploma-mill/t-west-coast-university-497.html Hey, Baraban! YOU said in that thread "such degrees are close to worthless." Have you changed your mind? I haven't!

First off, West Coast Panama proudly maintains that it is "accredited" by the International Parliament for Safety and Peace. That's nonsense, as I see it. The "Parliament" is not recognized as an accreditor. It has a post-box in Palermo, Sicily to which one sends money!

You can look in other forums (some links in our thread above) and people much smarter than me concur that West Coast Panama appears to be legal but unaccredited. It has what amounts to a license to operate but is not in the same accreditation/government permission league as the country's mainstream universities. West Coast (California) is NOT in the same boat - it's ACICS accredited.

As far as the Universidad San Juan de la Cruz connection goes, the blurb says credits are exchangeable according to the terms and conditions of Universidad San Juan de la Cruz. Say, anybody know what those are? ... Then again, as you'll see, I don't really think it matters...

If you look up San Juan de la Cruz, as I did at http://www.akamaiuniversity.us/AkamaiTwinningAgreement.html you'll find it's now "Twinned" with the UNACCREDITED Akamai University of Hawaii and also in cahoots with the UNRECOGNIZED International University of Grandview MO. I'M NOT SAYING AKAMAI IS A BAD SCHOOL - I DON'T THINK IT IS. "International" -- I'm not sure --read on. BUT BOTH ARE UNACCREDITED. San Juan de la Cruz (Costa Rica) was founded in the 1990s and I'd say "twinning" or exchanging paperwork with multiple unaccredited or licensed-but-non-mainstream schools could be dangerous for it. Strangely, I could NOT find a site, English or Spanish, for the San Juan de la Cruz school under its own name....

The fact that Universidad San Juan de la Cruz (same name, same saint as a respected, centuries-old college of the U. of Salamanca) is dancing with at least THREE unaccredited schools doesn't have good optics -- no, not at all!

By the way, there's an individual on West Coast Panama's "management team" who also works (his WCP bio says) for CUFCE -the unrecognized credential evaluator, recently ditched by our ICS/Kursk correspondent, Christopher Heng. CUFCE-links are NOT a good sign! Maybe a WCP or a San Juan de la Cruz degree could go in CUFCE's back door and a "California University" diploma (CUFCE's captive) with an otherwise unrecognized equivalency might come off the press!

You want to earn a San Juan de la Cruz degree? Earn it at San Juan de la Cruz! And stay away from CUFCE if you need it evaluated! Go to a REAL (NACES-member) evaluator. Let me show you the management team of West Coast (Panama). "By their fruits shall ye know them." Just Google them for their past and present affiliations - and see the degreeinfo thread referred to in the link above. Here they are:

http://www.westcoastuniversity-edu.com/Management%20Committee.htm

The guy who is on this West Coast (Panama) Management team and also works for CUFCE is also selling for another non-mainstream Panama "University" called "International University" at

http://www.international-uni.us/QueesIU.htm

This busy person and the Panama "International University" are hooked up solidly with the following um..."school": The International University, Grandview MO. www.tiu.org The Grandview school has no US-recognized accreditation.The person referred to previously AND the other "Sages of Grandview" have announced that TIU in Grandview and the Panama School (IU) are merging! The unrecognized beast (TIU in Grandview MO) is tied in with the less-than-wonderful International University for Fundamental Studies www.iufs.edu in Russia, home to WIDU-endorsement, "Grand Ph.D.s' and other monkeyshines.

Sure, the Leopard MIGHT change his spots -- just maybe, at some point. But regardless of what else I see, I'm not going to simply take his word on it! In view of the Leopard's spotty past, that would be silly! :-)

Aww, Baraban -- so many AWFUL memories --why did you have to get me started?

Johann

Baraban

09-29-2008, 12:28 AM

Johann,
I should have made better explanation the purpose for my post.
I agree with all the descriptions you provided.
I was wandering if this type of relationship between what I think bogus entity and possibly recognized entity as a means to short cut process and get recognized credential based on unrecognized credential.

highlander

09-29-2008, 03:00 AM

Here in Malaysia those who hold graduate degrees (masters, PhD) from unaccredited universities (such as Golden State and Newport) can get their degrees accredited by the Public Service Department provided that the graduate program is run through local private/public institutions AND the holders must also posses a bachelors degree from a recognized institution.

johann

09-29-2008, 10:39 PM

Johann,
II was wandering if this type of relationship between what I think bogus entity and possibly recognized entity as a means to short cut process and get recognized credential based on unrecognized credential.

Yessiree, Baraban -- sounds about right to me!

The beards are wagging in the other fora too -- seems that the "usual authorities" (Janko, Bear, Gollin et. al) mostly agree with my observations posted on their turf. See here: http://www.degreediscussion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6072

Cheers! :-)

Johann

Ahmed

09-30-2008, 08:55 PM

Hi I wrote to this school about there accreditation and here is there response

Re:
From: Enquiry - www.ics-edu.com (enquiry@ics-edu.com)
Sent:29 September 2008 03:01:21 PM
To: zubair dawood (dawoodza@live.co.za)

Please check out at FAQ

www.ics-edu.com

----- Original Message -----
From: zubair dawood
To: enquiry@ics-edu.com
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:08 PM

Dear Sir/Madam

I would like to know is you school, accredited by a recognized accreditation body, if so which one.

Would appreciate your speedy response.

Thanking You
Dawood ZA

And I quote:
"Accreditation or Recognition

Kursk State Technical University is a government owned university of the Russian Federation. The University is funded by the State and governed in accordance with the State Educational Standard of Russian Federation. The University was founded in 1964 and offers opportunities for learners to earn Diploma, Bachelors, Masters, Doctoral Level degrees. The University offers unrivaled expertise in providing qualifications that are widely recognized as hallmarks of achievement of skills and competencies. The University is well recognized and accepted in Russia as well as in other countries.

With globalization and growing mobility of human resources, labour and information special attention is paid to the issue of recognition of Russian Credentials outside Russia. To secure the rights of the holders of Russian credentials, Russian Federation has joined 15 international multilateral conventions and agreements on recognition matters. In particular:
UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Studies, Diplomas and Degrees of Higher Education for the European Region (1979).
UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Studies, Diplomas and Degrees of Higher Education for the Asia-Pacific Region (1983).
UNESCO Convention on Recognition of Qualifications of Higher Education (1997) European States.
Russia joined Bologna Declaration dealing with recognition and European Credit Transfer System matters. This event took place on the summit of European education ministers on 17 Septemper 2004 to 19 September 2004. Russia became a member of the European Education Association.

In general, Russian Federation executed more than 100 bilateral treaties concerning recognition matters and 65 of them are on equivalence of credentials. "

So, there you have it, seems legit or not?

Baraban

09-30-2008, 11:07 PM

Well what do you expect :-)

Every one here stressed out that Kursk is recognized university we don't need ICS to tell us that as they are not authority on university recognition.

If you want to add value to this discussion may I kindly suggest you write to Kursk directly. Find out what kind of program they have with ICS.
What kind of certificates are awarded.
The dilemma at the moment not Kursk status but the academic value if any of the certificates awarded by Kusrs/ICS deal.

Universities around the world have many programs for adult learners and it is very common practice to offer non academic certificates of vocation education.
I have a bunch of certificates from universities around the world in countries I lived. Wile there is a vocational value to such certificates they are not academic and carry no academic credit.

Here you or ICS can help the forum members understand better what kind of certificates Kursk awards to the students of ICS?

This is simple.
In any case we should know as a known business man and educator in our community has a meeting with Kursk to gain their business for his education institute in NY.

At this time posts about how well recognized Kursk are not helping in understanding what exactly are the certificates ICS / Kurks awards=rtds and
why NACES evaluation agency not involved but rather some what questionable entity CUF evaluators who are not listed as recognized evaluation agency for majority 99% of US universities, colleges and institutes and also not accepted or listed by CA state or any other state employment agencies.

Many State departments and agencies provide list of recognized by them credential evaluators and as far as I know these service is not one of the recognized.

johann

09-30-2008, 11:18 PM

Hi

Ahmed, as Baraban says:

(a) You are telling us what we ALREADY KNOW. Kursk is a legit school. Its own degrees are OK.
(b) You are NOT telling us what we WANT to know and have ASKED twice:

What academic level/equivalency are the non-degree Kursk certificates you get for passing ICS courses?

Maybe your contacts at Kursk can tell you. Our ICS man has been silent on that point, since he told us they'd now stopped dealing with CUFCE. This unrecognized outfit was turning these legit-but-non-degree Kursk papers into three levels of unrecognized "insta-degrees" of their captive "California University." :-)

Johann

Christopher Heng

10-01-2008, 01:33 PM

Dear Baraban,

In response to your Last edited by Baraban : 09-28-2008 at 04:07 PM.
I have been instructed by the Director of Marketing to state in my last posting on 28 September 2008.

Baraban quote: "What is not clear is the certificates, picture of one of them on ICS web site. These certificates are not Kursk degree. Nor they are academic certificates that come with academic credit. They don't come with GPA and have no academic value of credit one earns from attending a degree class."

Answer: If you are asking about ICS' own "Certification" - Yes, these certifications are NOT issued by Kursk but by ICS upon completion of courses completed through online e-learning courses from Thomson NETg. The "sample - CUFCE" certification should have been removed by my webmaster since I have given recommendation that ICS should NOT be associated with CUFCE as per Johaan's and your kind comments and information.

Baraban quote: "These certificates may have vocational value. But as Johann mentioned no legitimate NACES member service in USA or NARIC in UK will evaluate these certificates as equivalent to degree. Can you elaborate a little bit more about these certificates?"

Answer: All the "Certification" courses are the same courses stipulated in our Kursk's degree program - all are using Thomson NETg. Reasons why ICS is separating these courses into "CERTIFICATION" is because some learners are only interested in taking skills courses from Thomson NETg and are NOT interested in taking all those courses within the Kursk's degree format.

Baraban quote: "If Kursk is taking lets say these 8 or 10 certificates and in the end issuing a real degree of national format with transcript as a supliment to diploma then yes."

Answer: YES - if after completing some of the "CERTIFICATION" courses and along the way, these learners decided that they wish to "top-up" into a Kursk's degree, then whatever grading obtained in their earlier "CERTIFICATION" courses will be acceptable for "transfer of credits" subject to full completion of Kursk's format and a final project paper.

Anyway, the final decision is made NOT by ICS but by Kursk State Technical University. ICS is merely a facilitator in e-learning (Thomson NETg) courses and grading these courses subject to further verification by Kursk. The final project paper is validated by Kursk.

Baraban quote: "This things are easy to verify, Kursk do answer their phones and emails. A person communicated to me that he already has an appointment with rector of Kursk Dr Emelyanov and Dr Zubarev head of international cooperation board from his interest in this situation, he wants to do the same business as you. For last 10 years he is working with 2 Russian state universities and NYU and Russian immigrant community in the USA. He is a well known Dr in the education field in former Soviet union and a business man here in NY. He will post here after he finds out what type of program is this. If ICS offer real Kursk academic degree of National Russian Format then its great deal.Of its some certificates that have no academic value then its not good deal. "

Answer: Yes - please contact Dr. Zubarev for further verification of authority granted to the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific). ICS collaboration with Kursk has been approved by the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific). I have also obtained the said appointment in person from Dr. Zubarev in Kursk, Russia as one of the Kursk's Representative.

As mentioned earlier in my posting: "ICS is very strict with the academic process and todate ICS has rejected most application from students requesting for degrees without pursuing ICS' online courses (Thomson NETg). ICS has NOT recommended any student for the award of a degree from Kursk State Technical University because most people are only interested in getting a degree without any work."

ICS cannot simply put forward any recommendation for the award of a degree from Kursk State Technical University without any basis and the final awarding decision is with Kursk State Technical University.

Sorry for the delay in my reply. Is a week-holiday in Malaysia.

Christopher
__________________________________________________ _______________

Dear Johaan,

In response to your last edited by johann : 09-28-2008 at 08:36 PM.

Johaan quote: "Christopher, I think there may have been a wee bit of fancy-dancing around the topic here, recently. First - the value and North American academic equivalencies of Kursk DEGREES are not in dispute. They never were - so you don't need to re-iterate that Kursk is a good, legit Russian school. We're well aware of that. We're talking about the NON-DEGREE Kursk Certificates shown in your ICS (California) program."

Answer: Sorry - apology if my last posting comprises any element of offence. I have been directed to state the status of the University. I will NOT repeat the status.

As stated in response to Baraban's posting above: ". . . CUFCE certification should have been removed by my webmaster since I have given recommendation that ICS should NOT be associated with CUFCE as per Barabans and your kind comments and information." I will check with my webmaster again.

Johaan quote: "Your postings have been replete with references to a Director of MARKETING. In fact, marketing seems to have prevailed over academic considerations so far in this discussion - and I'd like that to CHANGE for a bit... As I said earlier, the wind seems to shift quite frequently and I'm asking these questions so I can keep up with the full picture and plans re: the ICS/Kursk collaboration:

(1) YOU are the person who mentioned you wanted Kursk/ICS to establish a partnership - I'm not sure of exactly what type - with "a good DETC school." Has that prospect "gone out the window" now because Kursk will only team up with a Unesco signatory?

(2) Baraban and I have both brought to your attention that the Kursk Certificates (ICS California program) are NOT Kursk Degrees and you have not yet responded to our questionAs what academic equivalent - and by whom - do you hope to have these NON-DEGREE certificates recognized, now that the days of CUFCE-printed unrecognized Bachelors', Masters' and Doctorates are over."

Answer: Sorry - my sincere apology again. YES - I (to the best of my opinion) wish to explore the possibilities of cultivating more awareness for Kursk's degrees through collaboration or other mutual arrangement with DETC schools. However, my mistake was - I should first obtain approval from the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific). In my sincere expression, I still think that possible arrangement should be established with DETC schools although Kursk may think otherwise.

Pertaining to your second question, reference is made to my answer to Baraban's question above:

"YES - if after completing some of the "CERTIFICATION" courses and along the way, these learners decided that they wish to "top-up" into a Kursk's degree, then whatever grading obtained in their earlier "CERTIFICATION" courses will be acceptable for "transfer of credits" subject to full completion of Kursk's format and a final project paper. Anyway, the final decision is made NOT by ICS but by Kursk State Technical University. ICS is merely a facilitator in e-learning (Thomson NETg) courses and grading these courses subject to further verification by Kursk. The final project paper is validated by Kursk."

NO Doctorates are available at the moment and no approval granted by Kursk. I don't think Kursk will ever give approval to award a Doctorate degree off-campus.

Sorry for the delay in my reply. Is a week-holiday in Malaysia.

Christopher

__________________________________________________ _______________

Christopher Heng

10-01-2008, 01:51 PM

Dear Highlander, Johaan & Baraban,

Highlander quote: "Here in Malaysia those who hold graduate degrees (masters, PhD) from unaccredited universities (such as Golden State and Newport) can get their degrees accredited by the Public Service Department provided that the graduate program is run through local private/public institutions AND the holders must also posses a bachelors degree from a recognized institution. From: MA Healthcare Administration California Pacific University (non-accredited)"

Answer: YES and NO.

YES - previously, Malaysian Public Service Department (JPA) only evaluate first degree (Bachelor's degree level) and any post-graduate from any University will be recognised by our JPA if he or she holds a bachelor degree from a recognized institution. What a joke!

NO, with so many issues especially when too many people calling DR in Malaysia - the authorities have started to evaluate post-graduate degrees and any person holding a Doctorate degree must register with the authority.

Check again with JPA this time, most likely you will NOT get a positive reply stating that your post-graduate degrees will be recognised if you hold a bachelor degree from a recognized institution.

Christopher

Christopher Heng

10-01-2008, 02:10 PM

Dear Baraban,

If your friend - a known business man and educator in your community has a meeting (OR will be meeting) with Kursk to gain their business for his education institute in NY.

Ask him to talk to Dr. Zubarev and ask him about the status of the appointment of the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific) and ask whether this Director can recommend to Kursk for appointment as Representatives in the Asia-Pacific Region.

I would like to know also - since my approval was granted by the Director of Marketing and official letter of appointment for my company was issued directly by Kursk's authority. I was in Kursk.

However, if your friend from NY has problem linking to Kursk State Technical University (actually it is a long process to get approval - a few years) I can link him directly to the right person through the Director of Marketing. The correct person should be the Director of International Marketing in Kursk, Russia.

Thank you for all the well-informed comments, be it critical or otherwise. It is great, at least I am trying to move in the right orientation.

Christopher

johann

10-03-2008, 12:27 AM

Hi

So the Kursk certificates aren't degrees...and apparently I was wrong in thinking they were Kursk certificates. They aren't. They're ICS certificates. The only connection with Kursk is they (maybe - I'm not sure) mark some of the homework for a fee and lend their hallowed name for some (likely unwritten) endorsement.

Reminds me of the Canadian Credit Institute, whose courses I passed back in the old days (mid 70s). Except there was no duplicity. You knew going in, exactly what you would get at the other end. Back then, courses were administered and assignments marked via University of Toronto, but your DIPLOMA wasn't granted by University of Toronto - it had the Credit Institute's name on it. (At least, mine - 1974 - still does.) And after three successful years of study and having five years' credit industry experience, you got post-nominals - M.C.I. (Member, Credit Institute). Only there was no "degree" pretense. Big name, University of Toronto - heard only. NO written endorsement. That is, the successful student got no such endorsement from U. of T. that he/she could show people.

I think this whole ICS/KURSK discussion has become a mixture of the following:

(a) An attempt to market courses through this forum. (Forgivable.)

(b) an attempt to "use confusion as a marketing tool" (a quote from member Ahmed in another thread) or an attempt to use marketing as a confusion tool. Neither of those attempts are as easily forgiven - at least, not by yours truly.

The CUFCE links are still there and so is all the foofaraw about West Coast University (Panama) - licensed but not mainstream, California University (Captive creature of the aforementioned CUFCE) and even the newly-controversial Universidad San Juan de la Cruz.

Universidad San Juan de la Cruz, known to have at least three "unaccrediteds" on its dance card, is discussed in this very thread. Suffice it to say that Akamai University - by FAR the most respectable (Heck, the ONLY respectable one, i.m.o!) of the unaccredited schools to "dance" with San Juan de la Cruz, has recently backed away from its previously announced "twinning" relationship.

Apparently, Akamai's head, Dr. Douglas Capogrossi (3 Ivy degrees - Cornell) felt that the relationship wasn't going to meet his expectations. I guess not, since the school (San Juan de la Cruz) was also "dancing" with two unaccredited or non-mainstream schools connected with the even-less accredited www.tiu.org , the widely-known Grandview MO "University."

Getting back to ICS/Kursk, what we have presently is a school, ICS whose certificates - endorsed or not by Kursk, I'm not sure - have been, up till now, only convertible into North American "degrees" by an unrecognized Evaluator (CUFCE) through its captive paper critter "California University." Now they (ICS) say that chance is gone...so all you get is an ICS certificate; no more Ph.D.!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * HERE ARE THE PLAYERS * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

KURSK

A "real" (and good) school - I'm not sure what its endorsement/involvement is supposed to do, except its name is lent, I assume, for marketing purposes.

ICS (International Institute of Chartered Strategists)

No degree-granting authority of its own from any country I'm aware of...

CUFCE

Unrecognized (Non-NACES) Credential Evaluator. It is not an accreditor of any kind, even though it likes to act as one. Its "California University" degrees are meaningless in North America (and elsewhere)

WEST COAST UNIV. PANAMA

Licensed but not mainstream. Largely considered as unaccredited. "Management Team" has links to "The International University" -Grandview MO. , WIDU (Grand Ph.D's and other nonsense) and to CUFCE. Not a good thing, i.m.o.

(Note: reference has been made by Christopher Heng of ICS to West Coast Univ. California. This school IS accredited - ACICS I think, but is NOT the same school. The one linked to via the ICS site is West Coast Panama. Why Christopher Heng specifically mentions the other (California) school -except to stay away from mention of the less-respectable Panama school ICS is surely in cahoots with, I'm not sure. More "Marketing Confusion.")

UNIVERSIDAD SAN JUAN DE LA CRUZ (COSTA RICA)

Established in 1990s and suddenly "dancing" with at least 3 unaccredited schools - the best of which (Akamai U. - Hawaii) has suddenly cancelled its budding relationship.

There - I think I've identified all the major players - AND I DON'T THINK I WANT TO PLAY. CAN'T SEE HOW THERE'S A VALID DEGREE FOR ANYONE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PILE! :-(

Here are two of the web-links that lead me to these conclusions:

http://ics-edu.com/index.php?u=kursk&p=conversion-programs
http://www.ics-edu.com/index.php?u=california&p=sample-diploma-equivalency

No doubt it will be hotly denied, but I suspect ICS knew EXACTLY what they were doing with CUFCE - long before I raised objections in this forum. They knew "what they were doing" - and renounced CUFCE the second they realized someone in this forum "knew what they (ICS and CUFCE) were doing," as well!

Want a Kursk degree? Consider earning it from KURSK!

Johann

J. Smith

10-03-2008, 11:54 AM

WHOIS information for: ics-edu.com

Domain: ics-edu.com
Status: Protected

DNS:
ns1.altruism.com.my
ns2.altruism.com.my

Created: 2006-09-05 00:00:00
Expires: 2009-09-05
Last Modified: 2006-09-06 04:54:58

Registrant Contact:
International Institute of Chartered Strategists LLC
Christopher Heng (christopher@christopherheng.com)
568-8-13, Kompleks Mutiara [level 8], 3 1/2 Mile Jalan Ipoh,
Kuala Lumpur, Wilayah Persekutuan, my 51200
P: +603.62571130 F: +603.62570500

Administrative Contact:
Altruism Technologies Sdn Bhd
Kevin Chan (kevin.chan@altruism.com.my)
39-04, Jalan Kenari 19A, Bandar Puchong Jaya,
Puchong, Selangor, my 41700
P: +603.80703903 F: +603.80702902

Technical Contact:
Altruism Technologies Sdn Bhd
Kevin Chan (kevin.chan@altruism.com.my)
39-04, Jalan Kenari 19A, Bandar Puchong Jaya,
Puchong, Selangor, my 41700
P: +603.80703903 F: +603.80702902

Billing Contact:
Altruism Technologies Sdn Bhd
Kevin Chan (kevin.chan@altruism.com.my)
39-04, Jalan Kenari 19A, Bandar Puchong Jaya,
Puchong, Selangor, my 41700
P: +603.80703903 F: +603.80702902

Source: http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ics-edu.com&tld=com

johann

10-04-2008, 12:16 AM

Hi

Thanks for the whois info, Mr.Smith! Have you met our other anonymous member, JohnDoe? :-)

This appears to be Christopher Heng's company - retailing Thomson NetG courses at around $1,000 per bunch. The co. has bought a whole whack of them from Thomson, apparently - Mr. Heng says $100,000 worth. The Institute grants certificates after completion of specified sequences, but has NO authorization I can see to grant degrees - Malaysia or anywhere else.

Selling courses is OK. Granting certificates is OK. I just don't like it when they surround it with confusion, foo-faraw and somewhat spoofy Californian, Costa Rican, Missouri and Panamanian third parties, to pretend it's something else (like a DEGREE.)

It isn't! :-)

Johann

Baraban

10-04-2008, 09:02 AM

Positive change in the right direction.
The ICS site is no longer listing Panama WCU program.

Maybe another good step would be to display the agreement between the Kursk and ICS. To back their words with some samples of Kursk degree awarded etc.

And CU evaluators are still on the ICS web site.

Christopher Heng

10-04-2008, 09:45 AM

Dear Baraban,

I will check with the Director of Marketing (Asia-Pacific) and request him to seek approval from Dr. Zubarev to determine whether I can post this onto ICS' website.

Maybe part of the MOU - not the full because certain financial information and obligations are stipulated in our agreement.

Baraban

10-04-2008, 10:28 AM

Mr. Christopher Heng.
Any change for better is welcome its good for ICS customers and ICS.
What I post here is my humble opinion.
I'm not an educator or any authority on education.

As an amature who simply been following the DL education since it was correspondence by snail mail and an immigrant resided in immigrant community where issues such as foreign credentials discussed among the people, I think I can make unbiased good recommendations.

Understanding that this is a business and peoples livelihood involved on both sides I can offer advise as I would offer advise to a friend or a neighbor.
If one can earn genuine Kursk degree via ICS then you are on to something and more power and success to you and ICS.

As mentioned in earlier posts real Kursk degrees will have positive evaluations from most of NACES member credential evaluators. This will serve ICS clients very well. As far as California University Evaluators why don't they join NACES? Don't they want to gain recognition and serve the clients is a best way possible?

Christopher Heng

10-04-2008, 01:59 PM

Dear Baraban,

All of us are amatures in certain passage of life - I for one is surely an amature in this FORUM.

Pertaining to your statement: "If one can earn genuine Kursk degree via ICS then you are on to something and more power and success to you and ICS."

YES - one can surely graduate with a real Kursk's degree directly issued by Kursk in Russia. ICS will NOT issue any degree, ICS merely act as a facilitator and forward ICS' recommendation to Kursk for graduation. The rest will depend on Kursk's evaluation of one's project paper (and possibly "sample testing" of certain online courses).

If ICS' recommendation is acceptable by Kursk and that the project paper has been evaluated, the Director of Marketing will go to Kursk, Russia to collect those degrees OR alternatively certain authorised officer(s) from Kursk may visit the Director of Marketing OR if both parties are unable to meet in certain period of a year, the degrees may be posted to the Director of Marketing.

Residential option is also available for potential learners who may wish to complete certain elective (Russian History, Russian Cultures and Russian Language) on-campus. In this case, the potential learner will collect their own degrees from Kursk. Residential option falls on SUMMER.

As for CUFCE, ICS is NOT part of the said foundation and is NOT aware as to why CUFCE did not join NACES.

NOTE:
PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS AS A MARKETING - I AM MERELY REPLYING TO BARABAN's POSTING. I AM NOT SELLING ICS' PROGRAMS. PLEASE DON'T TAKE ICS' PROGRAMS IF ANYONE IS STILL CONFUSE OR NOT SURE OF THE VALUE OF KURSK's DEGREE.

Christopher

Baraban

10-04-2008, 03:58 PM

The usual understanding is that CUFCE is more liberal and in many occasions will award equivalency evaluations and certificates to entities that no NACES member evaluation agency will ever award such evaluation.
This is business niche that they use to survive financially.
If they join NACES there will be many restrictions to their process.
As far as earning degree in any institute that is delegated by recognized university, be it University of London or Kursk I have no issue here if the process is fair.
Thompson NETg is used by some accredited universities in USA so in my view this is not a problem. I personally like the fact that there is final paper or project.

IICS can take steps in the future to get recognition , look at ipma.co.uk how they are doing this. In UK its NARIC that consults to Department of Skills and Education and evaluates foreign credentials.
IICS can work with NARIC just like ipma.co.uk.
http://ipma.co.uk/quality_assurance.php.
NARIC is a wide network and once NARIC UK provide its evaluation the credentials will be recognized in many countries NARIC centers as equivalent to credentials of vocational awarding bodies in UK or other countries in EU with Qualification Frameworks..
On the http://ipma.co.uk/quality_assurance.php page you can see NARIC report and also
download the report as PDF document.
IICS is more proper way to call this institute:
International Institute of Chartered Strategists

johann

10-07-2008, 11:44 PM

As far as California University Evaluators why don't they join NACES? Don't they want to gain recognition and serve the clients is a best way possible?

Baraban, you are a very knowledgeable person when it comes to higher ed. Perhaps that very knowledge of the legit workings of education systems has made you momentarily hesitant to believe that there are so many organizations that DON'T do things properly. I think CUFCE's history clearly shows it belongs in such a group.

First off, you mentioned that IICS had severed all links with West Coast Uni (Panama). Well, this is from the IICS website today: http://ics-edu.com/index.php?u=kursk&p=conversion-programs

I don't think CUFCE has shown any sincere desire to gain (good) recognition and serve their clients best. I think all they want is money and they're perfectly willing to get it by giving the customer what he wants - a certificate showing he has an American degree, however meaningless it may be outside CUFCE's office. CUFCE has gained some notoriety by being handed a cease-and-desist order for falsely claiming "accreditation" from the AAU (American Association of Universities - a 100% legit organization).

It appears to be controlled by Luis Amorsolo's Amorsolo Foundation, which seems to have quite a few disparate enterprises, from this "evaluator" to providing hot meals, to a child-care agency. It appears to have been been printing up its "equivalencies" as "degrees" from its own captive "Paperversity" called "California University." You can clearly see an example on Christopher Heng's IICS website TODAY at http://www.ics-edu.com/index.php?u=california&p=sample-diploma-equivalency , despite Christopher's denials of knowlege re-iterated in these pages.

Here's a thread on CUFCE from degreeboard.com:
http://www.degreeboard.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-708.html

Here's another from degreeinfo.com
http://www.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=27628&highlight=CUFCE

Awww -- see the website. That'll tell you what kind of organization it is.
www.cufce.org

Johann

Baraban

10-08-2008, 01:18 AM

Johann,

The question As far as California University Evaluators why don't they join NACES? Don't they want to gain recognition and serve the clients is a best way possible?

Actually meant to be sarcastic because I replied to it my self later.

I tried to navigate to the link with WCS and I still can navigate there., I do get there by selecting your link. Yes that's not good in my view.

The problem is that credential evaluation in USA is not regulated and allows evaluators who for payment will evaluate everything (almost) in to a degree equivalency from RA school. The average person overseas has very little understanding that this evaluation may be useless.
In most of other countries the evaluation is performed by a recognized arm of the Ministry of Education.

The confusing lingo on the site make it appear as some legitimate evaluation agency that provides recognized diploma.

Recent inquiries about other unrecognized easy schools by IICS such as CULA also appears as a search for some entity to market / expand their degrees.

We all know that there is talk and there is walk we can see the actions and recognize where the talk and walk of IICS are in opposite directions.
Now that the person running IICS knows the difference then he knows that backing up the words with actions is what will bring credibility.

The other way may appear as trying to gain time and more unsuspecting customers.

I think I read somewhere that US ICE no longer working with unrecognized credential evaluation agencies I think they also for work visas began using NACES if I'm not mistaken.

johann

10-08-2008, 02:25 AM

My apologies, Baraban -

I didn't read your posting carefully enough. That sentence about CUFCE stood out! Yes, the sarcasm was there - sorry I missed it.

It seems the U.S. has 3 types of problem "Mills."

Degree mills - that will (almost or completely) sell a degree to anyone (in some recorded cases, to their DOG, provided that worthy and deserving animal can supply a credit card number!)

Accreditation mills - that, for a fee, will "accredit" any um.."school" that wishes it and can pay.

Evaluation Mills - that will instantly "authenticate" any foreign paper (train ticket on upwards) the customer wishes to have recognized as equivalent to an American degree.

So many mills - mostly "legal" to some degree or other - but ALL meaningless. So little time...

By the way, I think this comment of yours is VERY appropriate:

"Recent inquiries about other unrecognized easy schools by IICS such as CULA also appears as a search for some entity to market / expand their degrees.

We all know that there is talk and there is walk we can see the actions and recognize where the talk and walk of IICS are in opposite directions. Now that the person running IICS knows the difference then he knows that backing up the words with actions is what will bring credibility."

I think you and I are in 100% agreement here!

Johann

Baraban

10-08-2008, 03:16 AM

I have credentials evaluated by NARIC UK.
The compatibility letter clearly states how my credentials compare to UK credentials.
NARIC UK also offered me a certificate issued by NARIC that one can frame and hang on the wall and also some employers and organizations in UK prefer certificate over the letter.

So to some of the people this may come as surprise but such service exists that is to provide compatibility certificate or diploma by NARIC as I mentioned and also my wife had her degree evaluated long time ego in early 90's by a US credential evaluator who works with NY State Health Services Department and they also provided her with course by course evaluation and certificate suitable for framing.

I never purchased the NARIC certificate as the letter was accepted by the Council of the institute I applied to.

Why I mention this is because CUFCE emulate this.
But there is big huge difference NARIC is the authority in UK and consultancy to the UK Skills Education Department in UK and as a NARIC nework recognized by Ministries of Education in many countries.

NARIC can provide you with a letter which is your statement of qualifications comparability. This advises how your qualification compares against UK qualification levels. You may also request an additional Comparability Certificate, which is an attractive document that can be included with your letter and Qualification Certificates.

Organisations such as http://www.naricassessment.com/ offer a Fast Track NARIC Assessment service which can be arranged online and normally takes around 48 hours. Staff are friendly and helpful and will take time to explain the results.

SPECIMEN
Mr A Smith
21 Porchester Road,
East Kington
Lancashire EK14 2ER
7 August 2007
NARIC Reference Number: 1941721079 Mr A Smith
Dear Mr Smith,
Thank you for your recent enquiry.
Further to this, I am now able to confi rm the following:
Country of Qualifi cation: Zolvania
Title of Award: Bachelor of Engineering
Awarding Institution: Zolvanian National University
Year of Completion: 2001
Assessment: Is considered comparable to British Bachelor (Honours) degree
standard
In addition to your Letter of Comparability you may wish to receive a UK NARIC Certifi cate
of Comparability. This provides you with your comparability statement in a certifi cate format
which is often required by employers or other institutions. This Certifi cate is an entirely optional
service. The cost of the Certifi cate is £23.50 (including all taxes) per qualifi cation, payable by
cheque or postal order to ECCTIS Ltd. Please contact the UK NARIC stating your reference
number and the name of award should you require a NARIC Certifi cate.
The service provided by UK NARIC, although based on informed opinion, should be treated
only as guidance.
I hope this is of assistance.
Yours sincerely.

NARIC will evaluate IICS certificates as unaccredited.
They as I mentioned in earlier post have a benchmarking serive where they can perform a real assessment of institute.

Baraban

11-01-2008, 03:38 AM

I see positive development on the ICS web site.
Mr. Christopher H as he stated removed the links to the CUFCE, WCU sites he told us he will remove.
They are positioning for a better associations.
As far as Kust Dr. Zubarev confirmed verbally that ICS is one of the associations abroad that can submit candidates for their degree program based on their testing at ICS.
I don't have anything else on this issue and don't know the exact arrangement but it can be what is telling us.

I will know more as ICCDU here in NY is exploring business opportunity with Kust. TodayICCDU offers MBA from NYU in half time to Russian immigrants based on NYU ICCDU and Dubna Russia agreement. The same for their Dubna MSW degree.

Baraban

11-23-2008, 05:30 PM

My father is in the Military, and was stationed in Missouri. He was approved for the VA benefits from the IU in Grandview, which has been taken over by IU in Panama, where he wants to move when retired..

I checked it all out with people from the state board of education. They didn't seem familiar with the VA benefits, but said that TIU of Grandview had about 200 graduates, while the IU of Independence has over 300,000 graduates, and was the largest and probably the oldest unaccredited school. Now, how does that make the IU of Grandview a beast, please explain yourself. Perhaps you are talking about the www.tiuonline.com which works from a tiny two bedroom house in independence missouri. Missouri said they had no recognition or approval from the state.

You are mocking an institution that has supported the military in many ways. The president of the IU Grandview even came to the base to receive awards from the US Marine Corps.

I told a few of the servicemen, and was told perhaps you are a war protester, or something?

I'm not sure how is your post related to ICS and Kursk?
Are you talking about this one?

http://www.internationaluniversity.edu/

Baraban

11-24-2008, 04:12 AM

And how is this connected to ICS tread?

Since I don't know much about IU Panama you can tell us and maybe instead of using "I was told" provide real evidence to support your claims.

Most organizations accept NACES member evaluations, not to many accept California Uni, and if there is one or two they are the exceptions.

This is very easy to demonstrate.
Go to web of randomly chosen universities and go to Admissions requirements and then foreign transcript or transfer credit.
Many universities will list their approved credential evaluators, in 99% of the time its a NACES member agency.

I have nothing against CU evaluations, I think they have very limited use because they are not NACES member.

The link you provided to www.tiuonline.com.
They appear as having unrecognized accreditation.
Also they explanation about accreditation is incomplete.
Accreditation is done by Private Agencies and not by the Government of Ministries, They forget to state that accrediting agency has to be recognized and listed by Secretary of Department of Education and also it can be listed with CHEA in order to be recognized. ABET for example only listed with CHEA.

TIU accrediting agency ACI has no such recognition. In my non professional personal opinion the degrees of TIU will have low acceptance if at all. And No acceptance where where degree from recognized CHEA or DOE listed accrediting agency is required.

No government employer, Federal, State, City or Military knowingly will routinely as a policy hire a person with degree from a school that has no recognized accreditation. There are some times mistakes made by HR and some one may slip in.

Many state school licensing agencies provide disclaimer that the license is not validation or endorsement of the academic degrees programs.
For this porpoise there is accreditation.

Hese is what I found on the net:

Many moons ago while searching for an alternative degree, I came across the original TIU, now located at: http://www.tiuonline.com By all appearances, they are very alive and well, and boast over 300,000 students worldwide.
http://www.dhe.mo.gov/mdhe/boardbook2content.jsp?id=468 Coordinating Board for Higher Education Missouri Department of Education.
I contacted Leroy Wade at the State of Missouri,(Leroy Wade. Director. Proprietary School Certification. State of Missouri, Assistant Commissioner) and they are an exempt institution, but without any restrictions whatsoever?????? They are using this exemption for operations in many countries, and no one seems to care. I also contacted the Ministry in the UAE, and was informed that they are not issuing degrees within the country, and all degrees issued are based out of their office in Independence, Missouri, USA.

Mr. Wade said their entire operation is based out of a small house, and it is a family run business. Furthermore, he said it would probably take an "Act of Congress," to get them shut down, as they are grandfathered. He also said there were two TIU’s in Missouri, and all degrees issued by these institutions were considered legal, but they were not part of the State Academic Community, or something like that?
The TIU in Independence is accredited by the ACI, that I believe was run out of the state of Missouri, but is still alive and well in Arkansas.

These people are actually, "The International University Foundation," and use the alias of The International University.