Hi Kouzoulos -

Well, as I said, it WAS there (on the HEC fraud list) "when I last looked." Unfortunately that was back in 2006!

See the link below. George Brown, the poster, has been well-recognized for his international knowledge of higher ed. If he says it was there, it was - and back in 2006, George's link worked -- I looked at it myself. A few days ago I tried to find the "Fraud List" again on the HEC site and I couldn't.

http://online.degree.net/accredited-...hlight=Preston

There are some comments there from unhappy campers who got Preston degrees in Cambodia, too.

As of now, you're 100% RIGHT, of course. Preston is listed/accepted as a private university in Pakistan, per your link to the HEC. Still, I think a Preston (Islamabad) grad might have very little success, were he/she to present such a degree to an approved U.S. credential evaluator - but that's just an opinion; no facts to back it up.

Anyway, thanks for correcting me. My info was 'way out of date.

Johann

Hi again, Kouzoulos --

I did manage to find this report - slightly less outdated (Dec 2007) showing that the Pakistan HEC had placed Preston (Karachi) in the lowest category, "major deficiencies." Not the fraud list, true - but it's a less-than-stellar recommendation.

http://admissionsync.com/2007/12/17/...s-of-pakistan/

My take - at least some of Preston's many Pakistan campuses appear to have been quite far out-of-favour with the HEC at some not-too-distant point.

Still, your valid criticism shows my "fraud list" comments were sadly out-of-date and I apologize for my reliance on old info. I'll do better - I promise!

Johann

No problem Johann,

just I don't want to "defame" some recognized institutions.I confirm that a long time ago I saw me also the fraud list.Now it is "ok".



thank you
kouzoulos

Hi

I hope we're done (for now) with Preston. The last I want to say on that subject is:

Kouzoulos and I both agree it WAS on the Pakistan HEC "fraud list" a couple of years ago, but is now on the "approved" private institutions list.

Kouzoulos wrote that "it is now OK." Are we sure? Only 7 months ago, two Preston entities - Preston University and Preston Institute - both in Karachi, were on the HEC "major deficiencies" list. Are we sure this has been revised since? I believe there are about 13 Preston campuses in Pakistan. Are we sure they're ALL "OK?" And how about Preston in Cambodia? Is the local supermodel still in charge?

In the past, in both Wyoming and Asia, this school has been just too controversial to make a believer of me - not that it should care. I'm still not 100% convinced -- but maybe others know something I don't.

Back to York. I just received acknowledgement of my e-mail to York (Canada) re York (Alabama) So now they know....

Johann

i would still be extremely wary of 'accredited' institutions from certain countries...what they mean might just not be what we mean, much like a true Hindu wouldn't accept a priest to perform rituals, who'd look like Kasper Van Diem, but would expect an in-bred pundit of illustrious ethnic lineage.
There are so many DE/DL opportunities in the west that it is highly suspicious to me why one might need exotic opportunities.
Cheaper?
Well, at times you may get what you pay for...

Hi Ham -

I accept your point - to some degree, although not very tastefully illustrated. Quite coarsely, from my point of view. We have Indian readers, some of whom would probably not care much for your exact choice of words - e.g. "inbred pundit." AND I went on to say I still have my own doubts about Preston, regardless of HEC lists, BUT...

(1) Quite a few people LIVING in countries far from yours or mine post in this forum, wanting to know how good/bad a given choice of school is, in their homeland. I try to find out all I can about good AND bad schools, accreditation/authorization details abroad etc. , so maybe I can HELP.

Sometimes a word from us can save or justify a major expense for someone living near OR far away. I like to think so, anyway. No matter where they live, I feel good whenever we can steer someone to the best opportunity - particularly if they've started by asking about a known BAD one. Sometimes the best choice is home-grown, sometimes not. Wherever the person is, I like to know something about the choices available to him/her.

We try to do good here...sometimes we actually succeed.

(2) We now live with world-wide distance-ed opportunities.

Yes, I'll agree - it IS sometimes about money; that's part of the attraction to the good South African schools, for sure. Distance study in SA is not without its problems, discussed elsewhere in the forum, but the degrees are GOOD and cost a fraction of what's asked here in North America. There are a LOT of happy foreign campers, with SA Masters' and Doctorates. Sometimes you can get MORE than you paid for. Of course, that's not universally true, in SA or anywhere else!

Other times, it's NOT about money. It can be about authenticity or (perhaps in part perceived) quality. If I wanted to take courses in Hebrew or Russian, for example, I'd welcome a distance course from Israel or Russia. Hindi, Gujarati or Sanskrit? First place I'd look would be www.ignou.ac.in The UK's fine universities are not inexpensive places to learn, but many outside Britain earn degrees from them by distance because they feel those are the best schools in their discipline. I don't think I'll likely ever NEED to go to a Malaysian school, for example, but other readers WILL. So I try to learn which ones are OK (authorized), which ones have "terrible" or "fabulous" reputations, and roughly what they cost.

In closing, Ham, I'd like to point out that although Degree.net itself may be based in Vanuatu, our community spreads far from those small islands. You and I may not need "exotic" opportunities (at least not right at this moment) but there are people in this forum who DO.

When they ask something, we owe them proper civility and our best efforts.

Johann

look, let's not turn this into a 'tasteful' contest over real or presumed emotional injuries that i may -or may not- have inflicted/personality clashes etc, I'll repeat that:
1 people do whatever they see fit. What I (or others) say is irrelevant.

I heard of Vanuatu as i heard of Nevis, Belize, Panama, T&C islands, Niue etc and -surprisingly- even Mauritius under certain conditions.
Again: what people need is their problem.
I just wanted to emphasize how, on quite a number of cases, accreditation from certain countries (Liberia is the most famous, but I read about Malaysia, Uganda & others ) might -just might- be(come) problematic at some point: are you denying this ever happened?
That is what transpires from court cases, not my impolite opinion.

OK Ham -

Right ...free forum. Say what you want. Doesn't matter what I like or don't, I guess. I'll shut up about that.

Your point about foreign accreditation problems (especially Liberia) is a well-known, sad truth. But actually, it's TWO problems. In Liberia, it was a simple case of corruption; government accreditation was a bought commodity - a cash cow for corrupt officials. The accreditation system simply wasn't one.

The problem in Pakistan and Malaysia, for two examples, is different. In both countries, there exists a reasonable (or better) system for degree-granting authorization - but there is an enforcement problem. Many (not all foreign) unauthorized schools are allowed to exist - often selling worthless courses and degrees - and many times they get away with it for far too long.

If you deal with an authorized school in Malaysia, or a UGC-listed school in India you're generally OK. Yes indeed, people have varying opinions of some individual schools, just as goes on over here - but the degree is recognized and worth something.

In India and Pakistan, authorized schools (HEC and UGC respectively) are mostly all right. Preston is unusual - it's been on different "good" "bad" and "needs work" HEC lists at different time. I find the school has been very controversial - but the HEC and its system isn't - at least not to a great degree. It's hard to please everybody when you serve a population of 150,000,000. (I'm sure higher-ed administrators in a LOT of countries - larger and smaller, would agree!)

In summary - Yes, the accreditation systems of some countries STINK (e.g. recent past in Liberia and presently in some other African countries.) Others have enforcement problems. Others are pretty darn good. I put in a little time pretty much daily, to try and learn what's good and what's not. For some people seeking advice, the best solution is a local school. I do the best I can.

Johann

York University located at 4921 Reforma Rd. Woodland Hills , California 91364, USA, according to its website (http://yorkuniversity.us/contact.asp) is a residential address. I google mapped it. So, if you wish to get your degree from someone's "home business" or garage, be my guest.