http://www.infovae-idf.com/html/procedure/valid2.html#1

You know DARN well "Barney from mid-town Alabama" probably wouldn't apply. And it's curious that so many of your postings here and elsewhere contain the phrase "used car salesman." You must have had some hellish car-buying experiences to be so constantly reminded of them!

Getting back to VAE - "Alabama Barney" wouldn't care, but John from London England might be interested, especially if he intended on working/living in France. (Yes, I know - he likely speaks French already.) As an EU citizen, he has easy access, these days. Who knows, someone like the hypothetical John might be among our international audience who might be interested in VAE...

One other University on the list was Université Blaise Pascal, as I recall- so that's two...

For the list itself - YOU can go dig it up on Degreeboard if you want. I'm just too fed up with arguing about whose suggestions are legit and whose aren't, by your standards.

And yes, I have read (and fully understood) the posting above of 8:53. I know French, and I know pretty well how VAE works. Thanks for your vote of confidence!

The thread about VAE process conducted in English was at this location and number.

http://forums.degreeboard.com/showthread.php?t=13421

You'll now get an "invalid link" and an invitation to contact the Administrator for help. You go ahead, Ham. Contact him/her if you want.

I'm outa here. I'm tired of being mocked. Even complete know-nothing bozos like me can get sick of it!

Johann

1 I never said VAE wasn't 'legit' or didn't exist. VAE is PLAR in French, much like BROT is bread in German.
As far as 'my standards', I am no expert.

2 You said you had the list. I am not interested, but someone else might. I doubt they may offer full-course service in English, but I didn't look specifically into it: those who did please share their findings not for me, but to the benefit of the general public.

That university sends here for VAE matters:

http://www.vae-education-auvergne.fr/actualites.php

I found no mention of full course VAE service in English so i need help there, but i found these interesting figures about how many apply and how many are approved by the committee.

In fact i posted no translation so that people think what they see fit.

The general public should realize that the process is very arbitrary in nature, akin to any PLAR procedure.
They emphasize your experience must be as close as possible to the degree you opt for, which doesn't simply amount to saying that if you've worked as an accountant you should opt for an accounting (not biology ) degree...it means close to the credit ratio...in other words it might -just might- happen that you've worked 10 years as an accountant but lack the equivalent of history credits or whichever such oddity.
That is why they suggest to choose the 'right' university.

Every country has its own approach to academic degrees and qualifications.

Some countries around the world regard a degree as a minimum of 75% earned by taking classes DL or B&M.

Other countries allow for theoretically to have VAE degree completely by accrediting the experience of the learner.
In practice from what I read so far Univ of Par grants generous block of credit via VAE and recommends to take additional classes or projects to complete the process and earn the degree.

In US a person can test out by taking CLEP, GRE and pportfolio or chalange exams for the credit.
If you know it prove it.
WGU has this type of degrees.

Not only every country. Every accreditor and every institution. These are my thoughts on this:

There are two basic approaches to the award of degrees – the Process Orientation and the Results Orientation.

The Process Orientation is based on the premise that how you acquire your learning is as important as what you know. In its extreme manifestation, the bricks and mortar learning experience is indispensable. The interactions between the student, his professor and his fellow students are an important part of the process. Little or no credit is awarded for distance learning or other nontraditional education. Recordings, readings, chats, emails and the occasional phone call are no substitute for frontal lectures, seminars, discussion groups and hallway, lounge, library and office interactions. Neither is an online classroom. UA transfer credit is rarely accepted and RA institutions may accept only RA transfer credit. At the graduate/postgraduate level, even transfer credit from other RA accredited universities is often only grudgingly awarded. The continuity of program can’t be compromised.

Distance learning is a departure from The Process Orientation. So are CLEP and other exam-based credits. Experiential learning is a more radical departure.

Not all process oriented learning sectors fit the model above. The legal sector is heavily process oriented but it has its own preferences. The specific requirements vary from state to state but the ABA has managed to dictate a certain commonality of process. The major common process requirements are for face to face study with a legal practitioner and a minimum period of such study. Accreditation is secondary to process in importance. A UA college or even a one-on-one mentor-associate relationship is preferred to accredited distance learning. Only California allows for (front door) entry of DL law graduates to the Bar.

The Results Orientation more readily acknowledges the various forms of non-traditional learning. An entire undergraduate degree completion industry has specialized in awarding degrees that rely heavily on CLEP, PLA, professional courses and transfer credit. No accredited US institutions are completely result oriented but the entire DL sector leans heavily in this direction. Commonwealth-style thesis-only or dissertation-only degrees also do, although these degrees follow a process of their own. So do degrees by published works. The French VAE is the most radical of the programs being the only one that allows an entire degree to be earned from non-traditional learning.

The Results Orientation doesn’t necessarily deny the value of the process. However, it assumes that the result is more important. Result oriented institutions grant a degree primarily in recognition of knowledge and competence.

Process oriented purists will tell you that a degree is worthless if it doesn’t represent a learning model as well as knowledge and competence. They will tell you that B&M education goes far beyond the answers to the exam questions and the material covered in the papers. Results oriented purists will counter that the most important function of the degree is to certify that its holder has certain knowledge and skills or that he is qualified for a certain task or further education. They will tell you that independent study and acquisition of knowledge is a process as valuable as any other. Experiential Learning, they will argue, is the most effective. It shows genuine understanding and perception. This, they maintain, is superior to a system where the student crams all night to pass an examination. In technical sectors this is especially important. This is one reason why the City and Guilds Institute awards are so respected in the UK.

I think that both sides have merit and both types of education are legitimate and necessary. Some degrees may be better than others, just as some universities are certainly better than others. When enacting standards, we define the minimum acceptable. There is always room for something better.

Universities educate, evaluate and certify learning. The balance between these functions is determined by the orientation of the school. Sometimes the type of degree is an important factor. Some subjects or sectors may lend themselves better to process or result orientation. The utility of the degree is determined by the customers – students and employers. To those seeking recreational education, enrichment and teaching positions in traditional institutions, a process oriented education is fulfilling and useful. For those seeking employment or employees, it is often more important that the degree simply certify the extent of the learning. The process is less important.

More of a myth.
I have no idea what it was like in the past centuries, but in today's age of mass education there is little time for education-oriented interaction. Students in dorms would rather get drunk and party than discuss philosophy.
Barren the (very) occasional 'friendship' one might kindle with a professor, teachers are rarely -if at all- open to discussion, especially at the undergraduate level; most of the teaching is administered by 'teaching assistants'.
I assisted a professor once, who was enthusiastic and promised to grant me the best grade; I was failed at the written exam. I went to see him and he confusingly apologized: he completely ignored what the 'teaching assistant' who marked the papers was up to...I so much 'ignored' the course topic that I had been chosen to help the professor with assembling a book on the topic he'd publish years later.
The professor thought I was extremely brilliant...the student/marker didn't think i was worth a bare pass... hmm...

Hi

I can't re-create the list linked to eons ago. It's gone, but...

These two legit French Universities DO have English web-pages on VAE.
Maybe they offer the process in English - maybe not. I dunno.

http://www.dauphine.fr/en/training-a...tml?S=&print=1

http://www-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/article....nge-of-courses

The much-cussed-and-discussed Rabbit de Sorebum (Robert de Sorbon) also has an English VAE page, but we're talking about LEGIT VAE, right?

Johann

I think life experience credit (call it what you might) is so much crap. Maybe it's worth 1 year of a bachelors degree. Too many people have worked 20 years on a job and still don't know an asterisk from a hole in the ground. That's why they hire a young snot with a degree to show them how to do things. If you give all 20 year people degrees all you have is a bunch of stupid people with degrees and no-one is any smarter.

Yes I know its a real difficult process and they have to prepare a portfolio showing they realy know the stuff. That's bull too. Take a challenge exam and I say wonderful. Perhaps a big failure of the education system is the lack of recognized challenge exams in technical subjects. A 3 hour exam would quickly separate the boys from the men.

http://www.dauphine.fr/en/training-a...tml?S=&print=1

I am afraid it is just a page of the portal translated into English (http://www.dauphine.fr/en/welcome.html ) much like http://www-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/en/bienvenue/; here is the Spanish version:http://www-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/es/bienvenue/





In fact French VAE (the government process, not degree mills' hype ) is a very captious and long process; finally, one has to convince a committee made of both academics and experts in the field how it is in their best interest to grant one a full degree...in fact they might just grant partial exemptions...plus one may be asked to further prove one's skills in a controlled environment.

Of course 'life experience' is a big word...one may have worked 20 years as insurance agent and have acquired some gift of the gab (a cold caller has more of it ) and superficial knowledge of the law in the field; the bulk of his knowledge, however, concerns procedures and lifestyle typical of the one -or the few- companies he may have worked with, which may or may not apply to another employer.

That is why legitimate PLAR schemes exist everywhere, but in spite of being much talked about, one can count legitimate degrees entirely awarded on a PLAR basis.