About VAE:
http://www.vae.gouv.fr/
From the horse's mouth...
http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid1106...nce-v.a.e.html

VAE is just an acronym in French to designate credit given for prior learning/experience; something that one's local university down the block offers, too.
Be wary of parties with vested interests presenting 'exotic' VAE as surefire way to fast'n'easy degrees 110% PLAR.
It isn't easier to get a VAE degree from an accredited, official French university than it is to get one from one's local accredited, official university.
Some millists do (ab)use the term VAE much like they abuse(d) the wording of the UK education act claiming that the value of a degree shall be left to the sole appreciation of employers.
Why?
Because the target public is totally clueless and ignores the technicalities of unheard of, foreign laws in a language they can't even understand...but it's oh so sweet if a fast'n'easy degree can be granted on the basis of some mysterious foreign law... Liberia, anyone?

Not true. The French VAE system mandates French universities to grant credit or an entire degree without formal study in the university. This includes virtually all French universities. As you have said yourself, no US school will grant more than a certain percentage of the credits for a degree without formal unuiversity study (in residence). The term may be the same but the practice is quite different.

The term VAE is, of course abused by mills. This doesn't mean that it is not a legitimate practice in France.

sure...there are gigabytes of laws and procedures. I posted the relevant governmental websites. I am sure that complicate legal procedures cannot be translated into used car salesman's slogans that apply to everybody.
First the law 'mandates' nothing in the sense that universities are not 'obliged', but simply granted a possibility.
Most educational systems offer the possibility of being granted degrees without formal classes...I heard Steven Spielberg was awarded a degree by presenting 'Schindler's list' as a portfolio .
This provided you can find a university council, académie or university senate that will approve your request.
Most often they will simply make demands you can't meet.
In other words the typical reader of these websites isn't some Steven Spielberg or some billionaire philanthropist who can easily secure the approval of mostly any committee; the typical reader of these websites is mid-card Wong, Leroy, Pedro or Barney from mid-town Oklahoma.
Now how realistic is it to s***est to mid-card Barney from mid-town Oklahoma (or mid-town British Columbia...or mid-town Shanghai ) to initiate a complex procedure full of difficulties, casuistry and small print with a foreign government?
Can you successfully convince a French university committee arguing in French in France that it is in their best interest to grant you a full degree?
You don't even live in France after all...
I wouldn't, and I have a postgraduate degree in French.

VAE is surely legitimate; it is only the translation of PLAR after all; much like the 'UK education act' often referred to by millists exists and is legitimate. That has never meant that promises from dodgy schools and peddlers of bogus '110% PLAR' degrees have materialized in a legal way.
Buyer beware.

I apologize. I now see why you reacted so belligerently about my mention of VAE. I can see now that it looked as though I was recommending VAE as a solution for an American student today. This was not my intention. I mentioned a number of options that included various combinations of traditional and nontraditional learning modes leading to a degree. My mention of VAE was seperate from these and meant to show a trend. As I mentioned, there is no US equivilent for a complete degree by these means. The VAE, alas, is only available to those who can write the potfolio and, usually, defend it in French.

About the French VAE degree itself. This is not a gimmick or an exception as you might find in the US. According to one source that I found (http://www.aic.lv/ace/ace_disk/2005_...Pres-Riga2.pdf) , in 2005 42,892 VAE applications reached the stage of presentation to a jury in a public institution. Of these 22,257 were granted full qualifications. Although many of these qualifications were probably professional certificates rather than degrees, in this respect the French VAE is unique.

I have researched many French university websites. It is usually quite easy to find the VAE page. In some, the process is outlined in detail. A good deal of the process is outlined by law. The above link is very informative. As are the links which you posted. I had some others which seem to be brokn now.

Thousands apply for and receive these legitimate French diplomas each year. Similar to entrance and certification exams, VAE has also spawned a consultancy industry of companies that will train you (well maybe not you or I but a Frenchman) to prepare and defend a portfolio. I'm not sure if this is a positive or negative developement.

Can we put this thread to rest now?

This website is for an international audience. That is why I posted my remarks. S***esting degrees based on VAE to an international audience means more trouble than reward for those who'd like to try, unless we mean bogus degrees.
This said, VAE is just the French way to say PLAR and PLAR may get anyone a degree, if the applicant meets the many demands of the issuing authorities: I never doubted that.
Funny how I read on a PLAR website in English (I forgot which university ) how 'having been an accountant for 5 or 10 years does not qualify for a degree in accounting'...

Hi -

"S***esting degrees based on VAE to an international audience means more trouble than reward for those who'd like to try, unless we mean bogus degrees." (Ham)

There are at least a dozen legit French Uni's (I posted the list somewhere once) that conduct the (real) VAE process in ENGLISH on request. Non-French aspirants DO apply -- and I'm sure at least some succeed! And I'm not referring to Mr. Spielberg or billionaire philanthropists.

Yes indeed - this IS an international audience. Let's remember that!

Johann

Although I never meant to s***est that this is a viable option today for non-French speakers, I certainly believe that it is worth a try for some of the "international audience." Many of them may be fluent in French and have lots of relevant experience and training. Our "international audience" is as capable of verifying the authenticity of a French university as our US/Canadian audience is in identifying legit and bogus institutions worldwide. If they have any questions, plenty of forum members are here to help.

The important thing is, the real legitimate VAE degrees are awarded by real universities. The whole idea is that the VAE degree is affirmed, by the university, to be equivilent to it's traditional and DL degrees. The controversial/suspicious schools that keep popping up don't even award traditional degrees so they can't affirm equivalency. In short, the same criteria hold for VAE as any other degree. Check out the school before you put down any money.

Hi Johann,

I asked you for the list some time ago but you were unable to find it (a broken link I think). Can you find it now? I corressponded with a consultant who said that the public universities only offer VAE in French. He s***ested that some of the (excellant) private business schools might offer VAE in English.

Thanx,

-DLG

Hi DLG -

If I remember correctly, that listing was poached by me from another forum. I acknowledged it (author: John Dovelos) and provided a link. Later, the forum "archived" the posting and the link would not work any more.

I believe Université de Paris Dauphine may be one such school. I'm researching as we speak.

I''m on it -- we'll see what I can dig up.

Johann

and why would Barney from mid-town Alabama apply for a French PLAR degree?
Don't tell me so that he can convert it back to a USA (Mexican, Chinese, Lithuanian... ) degree...
But for everyone with enough money and time to properly prepare their application, file it, follow it through and then convince this committee in France that they ought to better award a full degree pronto and without question, good luck.

I just wonder how hard it might become to 'prove one's expertise' to the committee [ mid-card Pedro from midtown, remember ], acquired in some country faraway from France, since it seems that proving that one has been say an accountant for n years isn't enough.

May the audience see the list, please?
You never stop learning, because all the universities I ever dealt with require properly evaluated/notarized/translated documents in the official language(s) of their country...